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LMA research help please

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LMA research help please

Postby batty » Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:25 pm

Hi, I live on the coast at East Sussex and find it very difficult to get to the LMA myself. Is there anyone who will be visiting in the near future who would be able to do a look up for me please?

I have a JOHN CLARKE (born 1863 in Lambeth) who was transferred to the Leavesden Asylum Hospital on 31 October 1914 from Claybury Lunatic Asylum. What I want checked is the Admission & Discharge Register (H26/LEA/B/02-2) to check that information is correct and to find when he was discharged. Its possible the discharge was his death which I have so far been unable to find.

Thank you in advance if anyone is able to assist me.
Regards
Carol
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Re: LMA research help please

Postby elsabels » Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:30 pm

Have you seen this site?

http://www.leavesdenhospital.org/

Potential death
Name: John Clark
Death Age: 76
Birth Date: abt 1863
Registration Date: Jun 1939
Registration district: Watford
Inferred County: Hertfordshire
Volume: 3a
Page: 1160
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Re: LMA research help please

Postby batty » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:11 am

Hi, thanks for the reply. I will try that website. Regarding the death notice, I had found it and got quite excited, thought they had just misspelt the surname so ordered a copy, but it wasn't my John Clarke. Thanks for the thought though
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Re: LMA research help please

Postby ianbee » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:17 pm

Hi
Re that LMA reference, all I can see is
H/26/LEA - Leavesden Hospital
/H26/LEA/B/02 - Patients' Records: Admission and Discharge
/H26/LEA/B/02-2 - Admission and Discharge Registers

Reference Code: H26/LEA/B/02/024
Date 1912-19
Access Restrictions: Not available for general access

So I am not sure that a look up is going to be possible, you could contact the LMA perhaps.

Did you know that John Clarke was transferred to Claybury from Brookwood?
Info from Lambeth.
The dates of his admissions to both Brookwood and Claybury coincide with gaps in the Patients Admission Registers in class MH 94 at TNA (on ancestry - UK, Lunacy Patients Admission Registers, 1846-1912)
So we can't see him on those. And the Leavesden date is after 1912 of course. We can see him in the census at Brookwood (1891) and Claybury (1901, 1911)

The slightly odd thing is that whilst the Lambeth Registers of Lunatics have him at Brookwood and Claybury, he hasn't yet shown up at Leavesden.
Leavesden was for imbeciles (sorry for the terminology) so that might be a reason possibly(?) How would they classify a lunatic at an imbecile asylum?

The record of Lambeth patients at Claybury that I have so far managed to see did not have any mention of a transfer of John.
But maybe a further search through those Lambeth lunatics/imbeciles records could still yield something further.
John might of course have been transferred from Leavesden to yet another asylum.
Ian
Attachments
John Clarke Brookwood.JPG
John Clarke Brookwood.JPG (102.46 KiB) Viewed 1345 times
Last edited by ianbee on Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LMA research help please

Postby ianbee » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:59 pm

Looking at that Claybury list, John is one of a number with some annotations - a tick, an X, and is that an M written in?
Could one possible explanation of that be that he was no longer being paid for by Lambeth? Which would explain why they haven't noted him going to Leavesden.
Answer - I have no idea! Nor how likely it is that he would no longer come under Lambeth (seems unlikely to me!)
It does seem as/more likely that he/they were still in Claybury at the time that register ended (supposed to be around 1916, but I think there may be some admissions noted for a few years more) Will he be found in a further register (if there is one)?
Presume that your source of info about Leavesden comes from Claybury records?
Ian

EDIT - Looking at the chap on the Claybury list who was transferred to Leavesden in 1916, there is no problem with finding his likely death
March 1917 Watford 3a 1202 - Fielder, Frederick George, age 57
Attachments
John Clarke Claybury.JPG
John Clarke Claybury.JPG (51.35 KiB) Viewed 1326 times
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Re: LMA research help please

Postby batty » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:03 pm

Hi Ian
thank you for all the info. I had most of the information already from a lady at the Redbridge Museum & Heritage Centre who have the records for Claybury Asylum. She was the one who gave me the info on John being "Discharged Relieved" to Leavesden on 31 Oct 1914. Her info was from the Male Admissions Register 1893-1893.
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Re: LMA research help please

Postby ianbee » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:25 pm

Hi
It's a mystery at the moment. The problem is if you can't get to see or a look up done in any relevant Leavesden records (which may be closed for a few more years yet)
That archive at the Central Library in Ilford, my local one in fact, is very good. They are always helpful there!
Ian
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Re: LMA research help please

Postby peter kent » Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:01 am

Reference Code: H26/LEA/B/02/024
Date 1912-19
Access Restrictions: Not available for general access


To avoid any possible misunderstanding about closed hospital records, LMA have provided guidance. Basically, you can't browse closed records yourself but you can ask LMA staff to extract records of a named individual providing you have proof of death.

"Hospital records are subject to a period of restricted access in order to protect the confidentiality of living individuals. It may therefore not be possible for you to consult all the records yourself. We are able to undertake research on behalf of an individual to provide information from hospital records but we do have to ensure that the information is only being released to either the individual concerned or in the case of a third party request that the patient concerned is deceased. We do charge for undertaking such searches within our records.

We suggest that in the first instance you contact the enquiry team who will be able to advise you on how to proceed with your particular enquiry. "
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Re: LMA research help please

Postby ianbee » Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:10 am

ianbee wrote:Looking at the chap on the Claybury list who was transferred to Leavesden in 1916, there is no problem with finding his likely death
March 1917 Watford 3a 1202 - Fielder, Frederick George, age 57

Well, Fielder is in Lambeth's list for Leavesden
Date of Discharge or Death 8 Feb 1917
Observations - Fr. Claybury

So out of luck for John Clarke.
He was sent to Brookwood in early May 1887.
The Copy Reception Orders for Lambeth (Board of Guardians) have a gap of a couple years at that time. The last one in the volume before the gap is dated 29 April 1887!
There should be a copy in any Brookwood records (no idea what records there are at the moment)
John does get a quick write up in the rough settlement exam book.

If the address given by his father is 8 Cross Street, here is the family in 1881 (transcript free on ancestry!).
https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/s ... h=20689207
Attachments
Lambeth 5 May 1887.JPG
Lambeth 5 May 1887.JPG (34.39 KiB) Viewed 1260 times
Last edited by ianbee on Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LMA research help please

Postby ianbee » Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:01 am

There is an elderly John Clarke in Leavesden Hospital on the 1939 Register.
Date of birth 1857 (day, month "not known"). Single.
This chap most likely died in Q1 1942, age 84, registered Watford.

No idea if he is a possibility, or whether you have checked him out. They would have had to have lost track of his age. It is a common name though.
Ian
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