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Emily Ann Parmiter nee Flower thought please

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Emily Ann Parmiter nee Flower thought please

Postby meekhcs » Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:47 pm

Hello Everyone

From the Dorset memorial Inscriptions I have found that Emily Ann Parmiter, wife of William Parmiter, died 13 August 1852 at Up Sydling in the parish of Sydling St Nicholas. There is a stone memorial in the churchyard. I have a copy of the death announcement found in the FMP newspaper records dated Aug 24th lamenting her passing, she was 27. I have just found her burial record on Ancestry (Edited her name was transcribed as Parmike!! New one on me).It took place at Sydling St Nicholas 16 Aug 1852. However, her death wasn't registered until Q4 in 1852! My immediate thought that her death was reported to the Coroner's Office.

I have just received the pdf copy of the death cert. Emily died of Typhus fever. She suffered for25 days and the cause of death was certified but there was no name added.

So, why the delay in registering the death and why was it left to the maid to register it? Thoughts anyone?

I cannot find any newspaper reports other than the one I have mentioned.

Sally
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Re: Emily Ann Parmiter nee Flower thought please

Postby KayFarndon » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:49 pm

There could be many reasons as to why the death was not registered in the quarter of the year it actually took place in. Perhaps other family members were also ill, or in recovery and were unable to go and register. Just because it was the maid is of no real consequence.
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Re: Emily Ann Parmiter nee Flower thought please

Postby peter kent » Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:01 am

Procedures in 1852 were quite different from those we're familiar with today. It particular it was permissible for the burial to take place in advance of registration or other official permission.
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Re: Emily Ann Parmiter nee Flower thought please

Postby meekhcs » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:04 am

Thank you both.

I had never come across this before and was intrigued.

The death took place on the 13th Aug 1852 but wasn't registered until the last day of the year, four and a half months later!

Whilst they lived in a Dorset village they were only a few miles from Dorchester and Cerne Abbas the local Register offices.

Her husband was a yeoman farming 800 acres. The Family was literate. Her parents were still alive and living in a neighbouring village and again were literate.The death was announced in the paper. Yet nobody thought to register the death??

It is possible that Emily was nursed elsewhere. Whilst not contagious it is possible to infect someone by contact, and in the 1850s, without antibiotics, Typhus fever meant death. Her husband and children were not infected and were all long lived.

The informant, Isabella, was a villager. Her husband was an ag lab and probably worked for the Parmiters. Perhaps she was the local "nurse".

I hadn't realised you could bury someone in a consecrated churchyard without formerly registering the death, which seems odd.

We will never know!

Sally
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Re: Emily Ann Parmiter nee Flower thought please

Postby avaline » Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:24 pm

The legislation at the time (later amended by the Births and Deaths Registration Act 1874) stated the following:

19. And be it Enacted, That the Occupier of every house or tenement in England in which any Birth or Death shall happen, after the said Thirty-first day of December shall within Eight Days next after the day of such Birth, or within Three Days after the day of such Death respectively, give Notice of such Birth or Death to the Registrar of the District.....

25. And be it Enacted, That the Next of Kin, or other Person present with or attending in his or her last illness, of every Person dying in England after the said Thirty-first day of December, or in case of the death, illness, inability or default of all such Persons, the Occupier of the House or Tenement in which such death shall have happened shall, within Eight Days next after the day of such death, give information, upon being requested so to do, to the said Registrar, according to the best of his or her knowledge and belief....

28. And be it Enacted, That every Register of Birth or Death under this Act shall be signed by the Person by whom the information therein registered shall have been given

38. And be it Enacted, That .... every Registrar who shall refuse, or without reasonable cause omit, to register any Birth or Death, of which he shall have had due notice as aforesaid.... shall forfeit a sum not exceeding Fifty Pounds for every such offence.

Responsibility for ensuring a death was registered was therefore with the Registrar, not the next of kin etc, and the Registrar was paid according to the number of entries in the year.

With regards to burials not requiring a death certificate - they did!

27. And be it Enacted, That every Registrar, immediately upon registering any Death, or as soon thereafter as he shall be required so to do, shall, without fee or reward, deliver to the Person having charge of the Funeral, a Certificate under his hand, according to the Form of Schedule (E.) to this Act annexed, that such Death has been duly registered, and such Certificate shall be delivered by the Person having charge of the Funeral, to the Minister or officiating Person who shall be required to perform any religious service for the burial of the dead body, or to the Person by whose authority the grave or vault shall be dug or opened for the burial of such body, and no dead body shall be buried until such Certificate shall have been so delivered….. and every Person who shall perform any funeral or any religious service for the burial of any dead body, or who shall authorize any grave or vault to be dug or opened for the purpose of burying any dead body therein, until a Certificate shall have been duly made and delivered as aforesaid, shall forfeit and pay any sum not exceeding Ten Pounds for every such offence.
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Re: Emily Ann Parmiter nee Flower thought please

Postby meekhcs » Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:29 am

Thank you so much Avaline.

So reading between the lines I suspect the Registrar was informed of the death. Issued permission for the burial but didn’t record the death in the Register.

At the end of the year, finding his mistake, he submitted the registration.

This seems logical or why worry so long after the event.

Thanks again Sally
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Re: Emily Ann Parmiter nee Flower thought please

Postby ianbee » Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:29 pm

There were a few queries on here a while back regarding missing death registrations - in cases where a burial record had been found. So some do seem to have slipped through the net in the early years.

This is a late one.
meekhcs wrote:At the end of the year, finding his mistake, he submitted the registration.

But Sally, is there no exact date given of when the maid provided the info?

We need AntonyM !
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Re: Emily Ann Parmiter nee Flower thought please

Postby meekhcs » Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:42 pm

Hi Ian
I only purchased the pdf and there was no date for when the info was given. The full cert may have extra annotations. I will follow up when I return home from babysitting!!
Sally
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Re: Emily Ann Parmiter nee Flower thought please

Postby AntonyM » Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:50 am

To clarify a couple of issues :

The version of para 27 of the 1836 Birth & Death Act quoted above is incomplete - it also contained the following:

" ...and if any dead Body shall be buried for which no such Certificate shall have been so delivered, the Person who shall bury or perform any Funeral or any religious Service for the Burial shall forthwith give Notice thereof to the Registrar : Provided always, that the Coroner, upon holding any Inquest, may order the Body to be Buried, if he shall think fit, before Registry of the Death, ...."

it goes on to say the notification should be made to the registrar within 7 days or there could be a £10 penalty.

So burial could (and did) happen before registration ... and every now and then you come across examples where no-one seems to have ever got around to doing the registration, or, as seems to be the case here realised the error (perhaps prompted by the registrar or by some issue with the legal side of things) and the registration happens later.

As a former registrar, I can assure you that the law still allows for a funeral to take place before a death is registered - either the registrar or more often the coroner can issue the "Certificate for Burial or Cremation" as it now called and allow the actual registration (and the issuing of death certificates) to happen later, and it happens quite frequently.

meekhcs wrote:I only purchased the pdf and there was no date for when the info was given. The full cert may have extra annotations.


The pdf should be a full copy of the entry GRO holds (which itself is a copy, not the original), but column seven should contain three pieces of information - how the informant signed (not necessarily their full name) their description - which means how they qualified to register the death and their address at the time of registration. Column eight should have the date of registration.
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Re: Emily Ann Parmiter nee Flower thought please

Postby avaline » Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:39 am

Hi Antony

I posted the first section to illustrate that bodies weren't routinely being buried willy-nilly without a certificate or other authorisation as had been suggested, but thank you for clarifying.

Would you mind clarifying another point please - more for my own interest than anything else, but also relevant to this query. If a coroners inquiry has been held should this also be noted on the certificate, and would the informant generally be the coroner? This has been the case on all of the one's I've seen, but as that only amounts to four it's not exactly a large sample.
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