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Was Ann married or not and who was Jane's father?

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Was Ann married or not and who was Jane's father?

Postby JaneyH » Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:46 am

Charles Frederick Dyson was born in Bradford, Yorkshire, in 1849 (I have the birth certificate) with parents Henry Dyson (a tailor) and Harriet (nee Hutchinson). I've tracked Charles in the 1851 and 1861 Censuses - in both cases with his mother but not his father. I have him marrying Ann Elizabeth Shaw in Kirkheaton 1868, aged 20. Charles' occupation is shown as cloth dresser. The marriage register shows his father Henry as a tailor (which was his occupation) but he is not shown as deceased. (His mother Harriet described herself as a widow in the 1861 Census.) Ann's father is shown as John Shaw.

I thought that the 1871 Census would be straight-forward, but ... Charles was a boarder in Hanover Street, Keighley; married, and his occupation was cloth finisher. His brother Richard Dyson was also there. Charles' wife Ann Elizabeth Dyson appears to be living with her parents, John and Mary Shaw, in Scissett, Cumberworth, Yorkshire. The Census form has been annotated so it's difficult to read - the reference is Piece 4355, Folio 27, Page 15. My reading of it is:

John Shaw, head, married, 54
Ann Shaw, wife, married, 44
Elizabeth Ann Dyson (Shaw crossed out), wife's daughter, unmarried, 19
[three other children]
Jane Elizabeth Dyson (Shaw crossed out), wife's grand-daughter, 11 months

It's confusing that Charles is shown as married while his wife is shown as unmarried. I've found what I think is the baptism record for Jane Elizabeth on 10 July 1870 at Scissett. This says "Jane Elizabeth, daughter of Elizabeth Ann Dyson, (illegitimate)". My take on this is that this is Elizabeth's child but that Charles is not the father. What I assume to be the correct birth register entry on teh GRO website (Q2 1870, Huddersfield, vol 9a, page 308) shows Jane Elizabeth Dyson but mmn blank. Wind forward to Jane's marriage to Charles Edward Beverley in Scissett in June 1897 and in the box for father's name it shows her mother's details.

Any thoughts, insight etc much appreciated. I have a note on my tree from my Dad from years ago that Charles may have emigrated to Australia. I haven't found any records of this so far.

PS: edited to say that West Yorkshire parish records are all on Ancestry and that Dyson was a VERY common name in the Huddersfield area!
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Re: Was Ann married or not and who was Jane's father?

Postby woodchal » Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:41 pm

Is it possible John Shaw was married to a Mary Ann Dyson.

The daughter as per 1871 census (Elizabeth Ann) was Mary Ann Dyson's daughter (either illegitimate or a previous marriage). The name was corrected from Shaw to Dyson, because that was indeed her name and John did not want to give her his name. She then went on to have Jane Elizabeth illegitimately.

One option

Name: John Shaw
Event Type: Banns (Bann)
Marriage Banns Date: 1 Aug 1848
Marriage Banns Place: Kirkburton, All Hallows, Yorkshire, England
Parish as it Appears: Kirkburton, All Hallows
Spouse: Mary Ann Dyson

The Charles Frederick wedding might be another Dyson wedding or was the bride John and Mary's actual daughter Ann?
Last edited by woodchal on Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Was Ann married or not and who was Jane's father?

Postby woodchal » Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:59 pm

Or perhaps this one below, Mary Haigh married a Dyson had 2 children and then married John Shaw

I haven't followed any of this through - it is just some ideas


Name: Mary Dyson [Mary Haigh]
Gender: Female
Age: 27
Birth Date: 1827
Marriage Date: 27 Aug 1854
Marriage Place: West Clayton, York, England
Father: Francis Haigh
Spouse: John Shaw
FHL Film Number: 1542173
Reference ID: p167
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Re: Was Ann married or not and who was Jane's father?

Postby ianbee » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:41 pm

I think woodchal is on the right track here. The Elizabeth in Scissett was Dyson in 1861 (piece 3254 folio 64 page 13). John Shaw was a weaver.
Ann Elizabeth's father John Shaw was a mason on the marriage record to Mr Dyson, which can be seen here.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=302468

Seem to remember Henry Dyson the tailor went missing?
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Re: Was Ann married or not and who was Jane's father?

Postby woodchal » Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:01 pm

Seam - tailor ha ha!
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Re: Was Ann married or not and who was Jane's father?

Postby ianbee » Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:26 pm

Very quick witted there, woodchal!
There's a baptism of an Ann Elizabeth Shaw at Huddersfield St Paul, 13 July 1853. Parents John + Mary(!) Born 6 July 1852.
Looks like it says that the father was a Mason, and abode Manchester Street.
The family seem to be at number 25 Manchester Street in 1851 (Ann not born yet of course). John a Stone Mason. Piece 2295 folio 425 page 21.

There was indeed a baptism of an Elizabeth Ann Dyson in Scissett, 31 Aug 1851. Father being Henry, a Cloth Finisher. Mother Mary.
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Re: Was Ann married or not and who was Jane's father?

Postby ianbee » Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:33 pm

Ann Dyson, 19, boarder, married, with John + Mary Shaw in Huddersfield in 1871. Also Louisa Dyson, granddaughter, 7 months. John Shaw a Stone Mason.
43 Manchester Street.
Piece 4365 folio 11 page 15
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Re: Was Ann married or not and who was Jane's father?

Postby ianbee » Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:47 pm

Triple Dyer baptism at Bradford St Peter, 13 April 1889. Is now Bradford Cathedral
When and where born, maiden surname of mother, that register is virtually as good as having the birth certificates!
Except it doesn't quite seem to add up? Ada born 14 March 1871.
EDIT There is a registration of an Ada Dyson, mother Shaw, June 1872, Huddersfield.
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Dyson Baptisms 1889 Bradford.JPG
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Re: Was Ann married or not and who was Jane's father?

Postby JaneyH » Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:24 pm

A belated thank-you for the replies - for some reason I didn’t get an email notification, even though I had ticked the box to request them. I’m back at work today but will have a proper look at your contributions this evening.

ianbee - as well as first-class sleuthing skills you also have a remarkable memory - it was indeed Charles Frederick Dyson’s father (the tailor) who went awol! That one is parked on my long-term difficult pile, given how common the name Dyson was in Huddersfield.
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Re: Was Ann married or not and who was Jane's father?

Postby JaneyH » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:35 pm

Where to start!

Thanks to your various contributions, I now think that the Elizabeth Ann Dyson living with John and Mary Shaw in Scissett in the 1871 Census was born Dyson rather than having married "my" Charles Frederick Dyson. I've decided this on the basis of the 1861 Census for John and Mary Shaw where she is shown as Dyson not Shaw. There is also an Emma Dyson (aged 11) living with them. I've found a likely birth record for Emma (1849 Q2, v22 p403) with mmn HAIGH. The birth records for two of John and Mary Shaw's other children - Harriet and Job - also have mmn HAIGH. For their other child, Samuel, there is a possible birth record for Samuel Haigh Shaw in Saddleworth, Q4 1855. Thus it seems Mary Shaw was likely previously Haigh and before that Dyson (states of marriage or otherwise tbc).

Now to look at those Bradford baptisms ..!
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