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Charles Griffin, Oxfordshire - please help trace birth

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Charles Griffin, Oxfordshire - please help trace birth

Postby Wendy Brooks » Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:22 pm

Hi, I would really appreciate some help with this brick wall, I've been trying to solve it for about 15 years. Charles Griffin was born about 1860 - maybe a year or so earlier - and was my great-grandfather. He was brought up by his grand-mother, Hannah Joyner, in Churchill, a village near Chipping Norton in Oxfordshire. According to his marriage certificate, attached, his father was Henry Griffin, a carpenter. I have found no other record of Henry. I believe that his mother was one of Hannah's daughters: Mary Ann Pearce, born 1835 in Churchill, or Paulina Joyner, born 1838 in Churchill. I think that Charles was born out of wedlock. Paulina and her then husband Carl Burger, were the witnesses to Charles' marriage. Charles' first two daughters had middle names, Mary and Pauline. The 1861 census, attached, states that Charles was born in Wimborne, Hampshire (Dorset) - and that he was aged 4. 1871, attached, says Boxmoor, Hertfordshire. All later censuses, 1881, 1891, 1901 and 1911, give Oxford/Chipping Norton/Oxfordshire and support birth nearer to 1860. I haven't found any records for either of the potential mothers relating to Dorset or Hertfordshire. I've tried the baptism records for Churchill and over the years have ordered several possible birth certificates, to no avail. This is all on my Ancestry public tree https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/ ... 7881/facts
Anyone got any ideas please?
Attachments
1878 Charles Griffin Marriage Cert..png
1878 Marriage Certificate
1878 Charles Griffin Marriage Cert..png (1.18 MiB) Viewed 1192 times
1871 Charles Griffin.png
1871 Census
1871 Charles Griffin.png (351.83 KiB) Viewed 1192 times
1861 Charles Griffin.png
1861 Census
1861 Charles Griffin.png (566.24 KiB) Viewed 1192 times
Wendy Brooks
 
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Re: Charles Griffin, Oxfordshire - please help trace birth

Postby MayHam » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:26 pm

A cousin, perhaps?

GRIFFIN, CHARLES    
COLLINS  
GRO Reference: 1863  D Quarter in WARE  Volume 03A  Page 195
and
Charles GRIFFIN (s/o Daniel & Mary Ann Griffin)
Baptism 13 Dec 1863
Hertfordshire Little Munden : All Saints : Parish Register
https://www.freereg.org.uk/

Marriages Mar 1846
Collins Mary Ann  Hertford 6 625  
Griffin Daniel  Hertford 6 625  
http://www2.freebmd.org.uk
MayHam
 
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Re: Charles Griffin, Oxfordshire - please help trace birth

Postby ciderdrinker » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:55 am

Good Morning
I've had a look at this and I can't access the family tree you mentioned so forgive if I miss bits or get things wrong.
I tried the new GRO index for Charles Griffins mother maiden name Pearce/Pierce
Charles Griffin Alderbury Sep 1856 5A 181 mother PIERCE
Charles Pearce Griffin Brighton Dec 1858 2B 173 PEARCE

The first is baptised at Purton with Brayton 11th May 1856 s of Henry Griffin and Sarah labourer.
The 1861 census gives Henry 38 from Inglesham Wilts and Sarah 29 from Purton.
Other children 1851-1864

The second I can see no baptism but he may be the Charles Griffin who marries Louisa Longley there 4.2.1879.
The 1861 census gives him as son of Henry Griffin butcher age 35 born Amberley Sussex and Jane 34 from Brampton.
It looks like the parents married at Steyning Sep qtr 1855

illegitimate Pearce children (no Pierce children)
Charles Pearce Kingsclere 2c 179 June 1855
Charles Dec 1859 Luton 3B 400
Charles Henry Sep 1856 Gloucester 6A 223

There are no Joyners mother's maiden name or illegitimate.

To me the Kingsclere looks the most likely.

Ciderdrinker
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Re: Charles Griffin, Oxfordshire - please help trace birth

Postby Wendy Brooks » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:51 am

To MayHam and ciderdrinker, thank you both very much indeed for your help. I will have a look at your suggestions as soon as I get a chance, though at a glance I don't think that they fit with the other facts I have for Charles and his family. Sorry you can't access my tree on Ancestry, it is Brooks Griffin Family Tree 2017.
Wendy Brooks
 
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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 6:10 pm

Re: Charles Griffin, Oxfordshire - please help trace birth

Postby MayHam » Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:16 am

Don't know if the following is helpful or not?
GRIFFEN, CHARLEY    
HAYTER  
GRO Reference: 1853  D Quarter in WIMBORNE  Volume 05A  Page 238

Name: Charley Griffin
Event Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 18 Dec 1853
Baptism Place: Wimborne-Minster, Dorset, England
Father: John Griffin
Mother: Grace Griffin
FHL Film Number: 002427596
https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/s ... ml_rpos=15

John Griffin & Grace Chown married in Dorsetshire in 1832.
https://www.findmypast.com/transcript?id=R_854955646
According to the GRO the maiden name changed from Chown to Hayter between 1838-1841.
Couldn't find a marriage between Griffin and Hayter, unfortunately.

John & Grace's family was in Wimborne in 1851.
https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/s ... &ml_rpos=5

It appears his mother died in 1855.
GRIFFIN, GRACE     43  
GRO Reference: 1855  D Quarter in WIMBORNE  Volume 05A  Page 181

Aside from the father, John, in 1861, I can't find any trace of the children.
Perhaps you already know this, though?
MayHam
 
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Re: Charles Griffin, Oxfordshire - please help trace birth

Postby Wendy Brooks » Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:31 pm

Thanks again MayHam. I've had some help from someone through the Oxfordshire Family History Society which kind of resolves the matter for now (it is rather complicated). All your efforts are very much appreciated though!
Wendy Brooks
 
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Re: Charles Griffin, Oxfordshire - please help trace birth

Postby ianbee » Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:43 pm

Wendy Brooks wrote:my tree on Ancestry, it is Brooks Griffin Family Tree 2017.

The Brooks Griffin Family Tree 2017 seems to have become the Brooks Griffin Family Tree 2018 (or is it a different tree?)
Anyway, it says that Charles Griffin born 1858 was the son of Edward Griffin (1822-65) and Sarah Maria Pearce (1826-59)
Marriage at Churchill, 18 Nov 1844, Edward Griffin + Sarah Peirce (father James). Image on ancestry.

The tree also has details from the death certificate of Sarah Griffin - wife of Edward Griffin, a groom. Died in Chipping Norton.
Strange question.
ianbee
 
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Re: Charles Griffin, Oxfordshire - please help trace birth

Postby ianbee » Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:01 pm

Not on the tree, but you never know, since the 1861 census says that he was 4 years old and born in Hampshire (maybe the Wimborne was wrong?)
England, Hampshire Parish Registers
Name: Charles Griffin
Event: Christening
Date: 9 Nov 1856
Place: Sherfield English, Hampshire, England
Father's Name: Edward Griffin
Mother: Sarah Griffin

Seems to be a one off.
ianbee
 
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Re: Charles Griffin, Oxfordshire - please help trace birth

Postby Wendy Brooks » Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:24 pm

Thanks ianbee, it is my tree that you have found, and I have added the connection from Charles to Edward and Sarah today. I already had them in my tree, Sarah is definitely one of Charles' grandmother's daughters, but had discounted Edward as the father because his name doesn't match the marriage certificate details. However following some help from someone in the Oxfordshire Family History Society, I've linked them up. I will have a look at your registration suggestion, thank you very much for your help.
Wendy Brooks
 
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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 6:10 pm

Re: Charles Griffin, Oxfordshire - please help trace birth

Postby MayHam » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:01 pm

Looks like ciderdrinker initially found him in the GRO.
Charles Griffin Alderbury Sep 1856 5A 181 mother PIERCE

Shout out Historical Societies, too. There are some very fine people who help there. Kudos to you, all!
MayHam
 
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