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Brick wall Ireland - Roderick Kane/Agnes Hemphill

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Brick wall Ireland - Roderick Kane/Agnes Hemphill

Postby AnnieScot » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:44 pm

This is my first posting but I have been following the forum with interest for some time so hoping some of you experienced folk can break down my wall!

My great grandmother (Nancy Kane) was married in 1852 at Killowen Church of Ireland to Robert Gray (less said about him the better!!) - the church was very helpful when I visited last year and so have everything related to her - the problem is her father and mother (Roderick/Rodger Kane and Agnes Hemphill).

Roderick is on her marriage certificate as "Soldier" and on later certificates/poor law records as "Sergeant" and "Pensioner".

Been to National Archives but they couldn't find him and while found an entry re Chelsea Pensioners, can't be sure it's him.

There are records for a Roderick Kane having children in Killowen later on with a Margaret Paul but again, can't be sure it's him so

Want to find his regiment/whereabouts/death and any info re his wife Agnes (birth/death)

Any suggestions would be welcome (I have tried everything on Ancestry, Find my Past and Family Search so you're my last hope!!
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Re: Brick wall Ireland - Roderick Kane/Agnes Hemphill

Postby shanew147 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:57 pm

> There are records for a Roderick Kane having children in Killowen later on with a
> Margaret Paul but again, can't be sure it's him so

I'm pretty certain that's a different (younger) Roderick Kane - the surname Kane/O'Kane etc is very common in that area. The birth certs for the three children I found for the couple show Roderick as a labourer, e.g. Sarah Jane in 1868, and based on a possible Index match the couple married in Coleraine registration district in 1864. The marriage should be available on the GRONI/NIDirect website, but I'm not seeing at the moment... on the National Index the groom is indexed as 'Roderick Kain'

p.s. there are two civil & Church of Ireland parishes named Killowen - one in Co. Cork and one in Co. Derry/Londonderry.
Last edited by shanew147 on Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Brick wall Ireland - Roderick Kane/Agnes Hemphill

Postby shanew147 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:11 pm

It seems that was probably a second marriage for Margaret - she's indexed as Margaret Wilson on the GRONI website there's also a Margaret Paul with the same references. On the GRONI Index the groom is indexed as 'Roderick Kane' - the marriage took place on the 12th December 1864 in Coleraine district, and the GRONI ref. for both is M/1864/K1/1033/1/95
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Re: Brick wall Ireland - Roderick Kane/Agnes Hemphill

Postby AnnieH » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:56 pm

Thanks very much - it is definitely Killowen church Coleraine as they very kindly showed me the records of Nancy and that's where I saw the roderick/Margaret Paul marriage/children. Unfortunately none of the records give any ages or parents so can't be sure he's the same roderick.

Nancy came back twice from Glasgow twice to have 2 children as her husband was in the jail for beating her up while she was pregnant !!! She presumably lived with parents


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Re: Brick wall Ireland - Roderick Kane/Agnes Hemphill

Postby AnnieScot » Sun Aug 26, 2018 4:55 pm

Had a break then did a bit more digging!

Groni certificate shows Roderick (age 20) married Margaret Paul (whose father was named Wilson) and Wilson has been added to the marriage certificate so explains why Church records have both names for the births of their 3 children.

Think this Roderick is Nancy's brother as his father (on the certificate) is Roderick Kane (Soldier) so back where I started!!!

Any/all ideas welcomed for how to find what regiment Roderick served in


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Re: Brick wall Ireland - Roderick Kane/Agnes Hemphill

Postby shanew147 » Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:47 pm

My great grandmother (Nancy Kane) was married in 1852 at Killowen Church of Ireland to Robert Gray ....


The marriage of Robert Gray to Nancy/Ann Kane actually seems to have taken place in 1871, same parish as Roderick jnr... both marriages give father as Roderick/Rodger Kane with occupation soldier, so does seem likely that Nancy/Ann and Roderick jnr. are sister & brother

Any surviving military records would probably be with the National Archives (Kew) or possibly a regimental archive.

You mentioned '..later certificates/poor law records ..' - what's the location and timeframe for these ?
If Roderick snr. died in Ireland after the start of civil death registration in 1864 he should be included in civil death records. I had a quick look but didn't see any good matches in Coleraine district (which covers Killowen), no sign of a promising match for Agnes in the district either that I can see..

RootsIreland (pay-website) has transcripts of marriages for Killowen CofI from the start of non-Catholic civil marriage registration in 1845, but does not currently include any baptisms or death/burials. Further records do survive for the parish back to 1824 and are available in PRONI.
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Re: Brick wall Ireland - Roderick Kane/Agnes Hemphill

Postby MayHam » Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:29 am

There is a Presbyterian marriage in Castledawson, Co. Derry on 21 Mar 1821 between John Kain and Nancy Hemphill, (Nancy is a common nickname for Agnes), witnessed by Jenny Gibson.
http://ifhf.rootsireland.ie/view_detail ... rry&page=1
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Re: Brick wall Ireland - Roderick Kane/Agnes Hemphill

Postby AnnieScot » Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:56 pm

shanew147 wrote:
My great grandmother (Nancy Kane) was married in 1852 at Killowen Church of Ireland to Robert Gray ....


The marriage of Robert Gray to Nancy/Ann Kane actually seems to have taken place in 1871, same parish as Roderick jnr... both marriages give father as Roderick/Rodger Kane with occupation soldier, so does seem likely that Nancy/Ann and Roderick jnr. are sister & brother

Any surviving military records would probably be with the National Archives (Kew) or possibly a regimental archive.

You mentioned '..later certificates/poor law records ..' - what's the location and timeframe for these ?
If Roderick snr. died in Ireland after the start of civil death registration in 1864 he should be included in civil death records. I had a quick look but didn't see any good matches in Coleraine district (which covers Killowen), no sign of a promising match for Agnes in the district either that I can see..

RootsIreland (pay-website) has transcripts of marriages for Killowen CofI from the start of non-Catholic civil marriage registration in 1845, but does not currently include any baptisms or death/burials. Further records do survive for the parish back to 1824 and are available in PRONI.




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Re: Brick wall Ireland - Roderick Kane/Agnes Hemphill

Postby AnnieScot » Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:10 pm

You are right about Nancy & Roberts marriage - no idea why I put 1852 (think it was circa when she was born!). I have tried Kew but they couldn't find any trace of him and I don't know the Regiment so stuck! The poor law records are for Nancy in Glasgow - she got help in 1877 when Robert was sent to jail (on 2 occasions) for wife beating (said less said about him the better!). My grandmother was only 3 months old when she applied! The record says both her parents were deceased.



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Re: Brick wall Ireland - Roderick Kane/Agnes Hemphill

Postby AnnieScot » Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:11 pm

MayHam wrote:There is a Presbyterian marriage in Castledawson, Co. Derry on 21 Mar 1821 between John Kain and Nancy Hemphill, (Nancy is a common nickname for Agnes), witnessed by Jenny Gibson.
http://ifhf.rootsireland.ie/view_detail ... rry&page=1




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