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Birth records after 2005 ?

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Re: Birth records after 2005 ?

Postby Guy » Mon May 14, 2018 5:25 pm

junkers wrote:It we follow the argument for not selling the information after 2005 then the GRO were 'at fault' in selling the information before that, the explanation could be related also to the Data Protection Act which came into operation in 2005. I am glad I have Scottish ancestors and the records are online, in most cases.


No it can not be related to the Data Protection Act as the GRO indexes are exempt data as they are required by law to be shared.
See the data protection Act 1998, Part IV, section 34
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/29/section/34

“34 Information available to the public by or under enactment.

Personal data are exempt from—
(a)the subject information provisions,
(b)the fourth data protection principle and section 14(1) to (3), and
(c)the non-disclosure provisions,
if the data consist of information which the data controller is obliged by or under any enactment [F1other than an enactment contained in the Freedom of Information Act 2000] to make available to the public, whether by publishing it, by making it available for inspection, or otherwise and whether gratuitously or on payment of a fee.”

See also the Births and Deaths Act 1953 Section 30-

“Searches and Certificates
30.-(1) The Registrar General shall cause indexes of all certified copies of entries in registers sent to him under this Act or under any enactment repealed by this Act to be made and kept in the General Register Office.
(2) Any person shall be entitled to search the said indexes at any time when the General Register Office is open for that purpose, and to have a certified copy of any entry in the said certified copies, on payment to the Registrar General or to such other person on his behalf of the following fees respectively, that is to say-”

And the Marriage Act 1949 Section 65-

“65.-(I) The Registrar General shall cause indexes of all certified copies of entries in marriage register books sent to him under this Part of this Act to be made and kept in the General Register Office.
(2) Any person shall be entitled to search the said indexes between the hours of ten in the morning and four in the afternoon of every day, except Sundays, Christmas Day and Good Friday, and to have a certified copy of any entry in the said certified copies of marriage register books, on payment to the Registrar General or to such other person as may be appointed to act on his behalf of the following fee, that is to say :-”

Cheers
Guy
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Re: Birth records after 2005 ?

Postby ianbee » Mon May 14, 2018 6:31 pm

Guy wrote:No it can not be related to the Data Protection Act

Thank goodness. Junkers must have sleepless nights worrying about the Data Protection Act.

Re the original question - what have births after 2005 got to do with genealogy?
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Re: Birth records after 2005 ?

Postby Guy » Mon May 14, 2018 7:24 pm

ianbee wrote:snip

Re the original question - what have births after 2005 got to do with genealogy?


I don't understand the question family history (genealogy) like history starts now,


and now,


and now,

not at some arbitrary date in the past!

That is unless one is trying to assess the history in terms of significance and consequence, then there has to be a gap between the event and the judgement.
However if one is recording history the best way to do it is to make the recording as soon as possible or even as it happens.

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Re: Birth records after 2005 ?

Postby ianbee » Mon May 14, 2018 8:40 pm

Well, I see plenty of people ask where they can find the more recent death indexes (answer, same places)
Not very many ask about the birth indexes. If I'm closely related to someone I'll probably know where their children were born. If I don't, then really it's none of my business.
And I don't require no data protection act to tell me that!
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Re: Birth records after 2005 ?

Postby Guy » Tue May 15, 2018 5:26 am

ianbee wrote:Well, I see plenty of people ask where they can find the more recent death indexes (answer, same places)
Not very many ask about the birth indexes. If I'm closely related to someone I'll probably know where their children were born. If I don't, then really it's none of my business.
And I don't require no data protection act to tell me that!


I don’t intend to get into a slanging match about the morals of viewing records.

However I was confronted with exactly the same arguments when I challenged the GRO to release the 1911 census which was being unlawfully withheld and the NHS to release the 1939 National Registration which was not only being unlawfully withheld, but had been unlawfully used since 1952 by the NHS, even Parliament was lied to about this use.
Such arguments were also used when the Registrar General closed the Superintendent Registrars’ registers to public viewing in the 1974 after they had been open to public inspection from the start of civil registration in 1836 when the real reason was the Superintendent Registrars’ were losing money as people were copying the entries rather than paying for certificates.

100 years ago a Royal Commission on Public Records appointed to inquire into and report on the state of the public records and local records of a public nature of England and Wales stated in their report-

“We see no good reason in principle for forbidding searchers to take copies at their own risk. The existing restriction rests merely of financial grounds and we think that it should be removed.”

As you can see they were in favour of the public viewing and taking copies from the registers not just the GRO indexes.

What seems to be overlooked is some people through no fault of their own have little or no knowledge of their close family or one side of their family; the lucky majority do not seem to understand this.

The politicians understood this when they drew up the legislation which is why they required the registers to be open to public inspection and that indexes be made and open to public inspection.
Why should those rights be censored today!

Cheers
Guy
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Re: Birth records after 2005 ?

Postby AdrianB38 » Tue May 15, 2018 6:17 am

Personally I think that access needs to be as wide as Guy suggests. However, that doesn't mean that genealogists need to actually use it. We all should ponder whether we should be delving into people's current lives or whether there are plenty of other areas to research. That modern access is needed for all sorts of reasons, not least keeping the GRO in line with what it should be doing.

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Re: Birth records after 2005 ?

Postby AdrianB38 » Tue May 15, 2018 8:26 am

Or to put it another way:
1. Simon asked a perfectly reasonable factual question. (Just in case he feels he's being got at).

2. Ethics for professional genealogists emphasise the need for informed consent from living people.

3. There are lots of reasons that have nothing to do with genealogy why there should be access to current vital records, wills, etc etc.

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Re: Birth records after 2005 ?

Postby ianbee » Tue May 15, 2018 9:16 am

That's all I was asking, what is the relevance of such recent birth registrations to ordinary genealogical research? I mean of the kind that most of us indulge in as a hobby.
We don't have slanging matches on WDTYA forum!
Not getting at Simon at all - helped him several times - and he now knows where to go to find what he is looking for.
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Re: Birth records after 2005 ?

Postby AdrianB38 » Tue May 15, 2018 9:33 am

Totally agree with you Ian. I only mentioned Simon in case he felt overwhelmed by the length of correspondence his request generated. As for relevance, I was something of a stand-out on the 1939 Register. Being a mathematician and former programmer, I subscribe wholly to the idea that rules should not be magicked up out of nowhere for convenience, so supported the release of the 1939. However, I was underwhelmed by the prospect of what was to come. That said, there were a few interesting things but they were, for me, l emphasise, on the level of "Oh Uncle Ted was there, not there". So I don't regard every last detail as that relevant.

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