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James Smith (or Rutterford) Curtis 1872...

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James Smith (or Rutterford) Curtis 1872...

Postby Cachalot6972 » Fri May 04, 2018 7:50 pm

'Allo, Allo,

I have a small conundrum that's popped up with an entry in the 1939 Register.

Part One:
Here we have John Rutterford Curtis & his wife Hilda Lily (nee Mattin). So far so good. Then there's James Rutterford Curtis, who would seem to be a relative, what with having the same surname and all. The problem is, there are no birth record or death records for any James Rutterford Curtis born about 1872, or anywhen else for that matter, nor are there any census entries for him either. So, who he?

Short history for anyone interested:
The Rutterford name came in when John Curtis (my G-G-uncle) married Ann Rutterford in 1826. They had four known children, one of whom had the forename Rutterford bestowed upon him.
Rutterford married Hannah Smith in 1859 and they begat 10 children, five boys and five girls. One of those boys was John (b.1862) who married Phoebe (I've not found their marriage yet, but I think her surname may be Irwin), and their only known child is the John Rutterford Curtis seen in the 1939 Register. This more or less neatly brings us back to James R Curtis.

There's a marriage record that looks suspiciously like him:
James Rutherford Curtis = Edith Lucy Green 1898 Q4 Lambeth 1D 842.
Also noted against the marriage reference are William Robert Legood and Elizabeth Ann Freeman, but I believe those are the William R Legood and his wife Elizabeth who are shown as married with one child and living in Lambeth in the 1901 census. Their child William A Legood is recorded in the GRO online index with a mother's maiden surname of Freeman.

My theory is that he is Johns uncle, James Smith Curtis, whose birth was registered in 1872 Q4. I'm not too concerned with the date of birth given in the Register, I'm sure we've all had relatives who have played fast and loose with the info given to officialdom, whether deliberately or because they just didn't know; so my theory seems (to me anyway) possible, if not downright plausible.

Does anyone concur with my theory, or have any other thoughts on this..?


Part Two...

And can anyone shed any light on what the notations at the start of the line might mean? it looks like '½', 'med', possibly a date '13 5 53' and the initials 'CB'.
Attachments
CURTIS Rutterford - 1939.JPG
CURTIS Rutterford - 1939.JPG (42.86 KiB) Viewed 1150 times
CURTIS Rutterford - 1939 - 2.JPG
CURTIS Rutterford - 1939 - 2.JPG (51.98 KiB) Viewed 1150 times
Phil

Indecision is the key to flexibility...
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Re: James Smith (or Rutterford) Curtis 1872...

Postby trace » Fri May 04, 2018 8:08 pm

On James Rutherford Curtis (age 25 : Groom) marriage he declares his father is Rutherford Curtis (deceased) Gardener....??
One of the witness to marriage is Frederick Curtis.
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Re: James Smith (or Rutterford) Curtis 1872...

Postby ianbee » Fri May 04, 2018 8:48 pm

trace wrote:On James Rutherford Curtis (age 25 : Groom) marriage he declares his father is Rutherford Curtis (deceased) Gardener....??
One of the witness to marriage is Frederick Curtis.

Can also see (and download) that marriage here (need to be logged in). Other witness is Harriett Steel
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... &cat=34327
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Re: James Smith (or Rutterford) Curtis 1872...

Postby ianbee » Fri May 04, 2018 9:10 pm

That address by the way leads to Frederick Curtis (the marriage witness?) and family
1899 electoral register
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=2228170

And 1901 census, 32 Newnham Terrace, has Frederick Curtis, 33, Drayman, born Suffolk Mildenhall, wife Anne 26, and two daughters.
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Re: James Smith (or Rutterford) Curtis 1872...

Postby elsabels » Fri May 04, 2018 10:26 pm

St Andrew, Earlsfield, Wandsworth,
Date: 5 Oct 1922
John Rutterford Curtis Age:21
Hilda Lily Mattin
Barriage Date: 5 Oct 1922
Groom Father John Curtis Sanitary Eng
Bride Father George William Mattin Gamekeeper
Witnesses VA Jefferies, EW Sullere?

Name John Rutterford Curtis
Birth 07/1901 Wandsworth London
V1d p 572

CURTIS, JOHN RUTTERFORD mmn IRWIN
GRO Reference: 1901 S Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 572
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Re: James Smith (or Rutterford) Curtis 1872...

Postby elsabels » Fri May 04, 2018 11:06 pm

1901
RG13; Piece: 443; Folio: 11; Page: 14
John Curtis 37 Mildenhall, Suffolk
Phoebe C Curtis 39 Clapham, London
Georgina G Curtis 11 Pimlico, Londonv

John Rutherford Curtis
Gender: Male
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 24 Nov 1901
Baptism Place: Battersea All Saints, Wandsworth, England
Father: John Curtis (disinfector)
Mother: Phoebe Catherine Curtis

1871
RG10; Piece: 1729; Folio: 81; Page: 9
Ruther Curtiss 38
Hannah Curtiss 35
Harriett Curtiss 10
Mary Ann Curtiss 8
John Curtiss 7 Married Phoebe
Hannah Curtiss 6
Emma Curtiss 5
George Curtiss 4
Frederick Curtiss 3 witness to James R marriage
Eliza Curtiss 1
Charles Curtiss 2 Days

1881
Rutterford Curtis 48
Hannah Curtis 45
Mary A. Curtis 19
Emiline Curtis 16
Frederick Curtis 14
Eliza Curtis 11
Charles Curtis 9
James Curtis 8 1939 Register

James Rutherford Curtis
Gender: Male
Marriage Age: 25
Record Type: Marriage
Birth Date: abt 1873
Marriage Date: 11 Dec 1898
Marriage Place: Holy Trinity, Lambeth, Lambeth, England
Father: Rutherford Curtis
Spouse: Edith Lucy Green

JAMES SMITH CURTISS
Birth year 1872
Birth quarter 4
District Mildenhall Suffolk
Volume 4A Page 535

CURTISS, JAMES SMITH mmn SMITH
GRO Reference: 1872 D Quarter in MILDENHALL Volume 04A Page 535

Sorry a bit all over the place but I think itis the info you need to clarify the relationship
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Re: James Smith (or Rutterford) Curtis 1872...

Postby elsabels » Fri May 04, 2018 11:23 pm

1939 Register

13 5 53 (13 May 1953) is the date the record was amended

CB could = County Boro'

see attached schedule

https://
www.findmypast.co.uk/articles/1939-regi ... -districts
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Re: James Smith (or Rutterford) Curtis 1872...

Postby elsabels » Sat May 05, 2018 12:08 am

Phoebe 'IRWIN'
On the 1901 census there is a child Georgina G Curtis b 1890 living with John Curtis & Phoebe, there with no birth entry under Curtis ( see below)

The 1911 census indicates that John & Phoebe had been married 27 years giving a year of marriage circa 1884 and there is only one child of the marriage John mmn Irwin

Georgina has a birth entry of
Results:
Name: Mother's Maiden Surname: Order:
*IRWIN, GEORGINA GERTRUDE mmn ROBINSON
GRO Reference: 1889 J Quarter in ST GEORGE HANOVER SQUARE Volume 01A Page 431

Searching the records produces Phoebe C Robinson married

Phoebe Catherine Robinson
Marriage Age: 19
Birth Date: abt 1862
Marriage Date: 11 Jul 1881
Marriage Place: St Mary, Lambeth, Lambeth, England
Father: Henry Lawrence Robinson
Spouse: John Charles Thomas Irwin

If this is the correct record JCTI didnot die until
Name: John C T Irwin
Death Age: 57
Birth Date: abt 1862
Registration Date: Mar 1919
Registration district: Lambeth
Volume: 1d Page: 560

* More on Georgina, she is living in 1911 as a niece to Harry Burnett at 200 Norwood Rd, West Norwood, London SE

In 1913 she marries an Ernest W SUTTERS I now realise this is the signature as a witness to the marriage of John R Curtis to Hilda Lily Mattin in 1922

There is a child of the marriage John Ernest SUTTER 22 Feb 1914 ( army records)

You will find her on the electoral rolls. She died 13 Mar 1948 leaving an estate of £520.

NB when searching Rutterford, search as Rut*erford you will get more results
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Re: James Smith (or Rutterford) Curtis 1872...

Postby Cachalot6972 » Sun May 06, 2018 4:04 pm

A big thank you to 'trace', 'ianbee', and 'elsabels' for those answers; I certainly wasn't expecting anything as comprehensive as that, it was obviously a slow Friday/Saturday where you are to put that much work in! And you have confirmed my supposition that James S Curtis was also James R Curtis.

Rutterford Curtis died 18 Jan 1898, so James seems to have decided to use the middle name Rutterford (possibly in memory of his father?) from his marriage onwards, although his death record has him back as James S Curtis (d.1965).

The witness at James' wedding would probably be his older brother Frederick Charles Curtis (1867-1925).

My pathetic excuse for not finding out as much as you all have is that I'm still renovating my starter chateau and only do any genealogical stuff when I get bored waiting for paint to dry or somesuch...

Incidentally, Rutterford, his wife Hannah, and their son John, are all buried in Kingsway Cemetery, Mildenhall. The cemetery is disused now, somewhat overgrown and the stones are well worn, but I could still make out their names when I visited there a few years ago.
Phil

Indecision is the key to flexibility...
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