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A Smith familly puzzle in 19th century Liverpool

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A Smith familly puzzle in 19th century Liverpool

Postby Mariner Aus » Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:53 pm

Hi everyone

I was wondering if you could help me solve this family puzzle I have just revealed

On Friday evening, after many years of looking I finally received the death cert in pdf of my 3xgreat grandfather John Smith who died on the 6th Feb 1874 (aged 35) at the royal infirmary in Liverpool. He was a Gasfitter by trade and died of bronchitis.
In the informant column, it shows a James Smith (no relation mentioned) living at 78 High street Wavertree. So I did some further research and I know that John's daughter Caroline Hannah Smith (1861-1937) married a Richard Smith on the 25th Nov 1890. Richard's father was a James Smith! I haven't seen their actual marriage cert, just the transcribed info. So I double checked in the 1871 census for Wavertree and sure enough there is Richard Smith living with his father James born c.1835 (Painter)and mother Margaret Anna in the High Street in Wavertree. I haven't been able to find the link between John and James being brothers or cousins at this stage because:

James Smith's father looks to be a Richardson Smith in the 1861 census.

John Smith's father was listed as Thomas Smith (Police officer) on his wedding cert to Ann Mawhinney in Liverpool on the 11th July 1858. John's address is listed as Edward St on his marriage cert. John was baptsied 11th Jan 1837 to St Peters Liverpool son of Thomas Smith and Hannah Tasker. Tom and Hannah married 17th July 1831 to Liverpool and are shown on the 1841 census with their 3 kids Thomas, John and Margaret at Edward Street. Tom is listed as a Police officer on the 1841 census.

If anyone has any tips on how I can trace the link (if any) between John and James Smith I would be extremely grateful!

Thank you again

Kind regards

Pieter
Mariner Aus
 
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Re: A Smith familly puzzle in 19th century Liverpool

Postby ianbee » Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:16 pm

Mariner Aus wrote:3xgreat grandfather John Smith who died on the 6th Feb 1874 (aged 35) at the royal infirmary in Liverpool. He was a Gasfitter by trade and died of bronchitis.

Buried at Toxteth Park Cemetery, 10th February.
Image here (need to be logged in)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=405169

Burial order books (lot of crossing out on his one!)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=462697

Mariner Aus wrote: Caroline Hannah Smith (1861-1937) married a Richard Smith on the 25th Nov 1890. Richard's father was a James Smith! I haven't seen their actual marriage cert, just the transcribed info.

Image here
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=122430
ianbee
 
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Re: A Smith familly puzzle in 19th century Liverpool

Postby elsabels » Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:57 pm

Could this be Richardson's baptism?
Name: Richard Smith
Residence Place: Childwall, Lancashire, England
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 08 Aug 1819
Christening Date (Original): 08 Aug 1819
Christening Place: CHILDWALL, LANCASHIRE, ENGLAND
Birth Date: 01 Mar 1802
Father's Name: Richard Smith
Mother's Name: Ellen

Have you seen the 1851 census
HO107; Piece: 2192; Folio: 1096; Page: 45
Richardson Smith 48
Elizabeth Smith 40
James Smith 16
John Smith 13

Ellen Smith 6
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Re: A Smith familly puzzle in 19th century Liverpool

Postby Mariner Aus » Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:16 am

Thanks everyone for the help. Is it possible to find the marriage information between James and Margaret Anna Smith listed in the 1871 census in Wavertree? I have a feeling Margaret could be John Smith's daughter.
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Re: A Smith familly puzzle in 19th century Liverpool

Postby JMcK » Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:52 am

marriage of James Smith to Margaret Anna Smith might be West Derby 8b 477 March qtr 1865

but i can't find evidence to show that the other two names James Crosby and Ellen Prewett definitely married so it could be a case of wandering up the garden path.

I've been looking for a Margaret Ann Smith b abt 1840 in Liverpool. There are several. None has a father John so far.
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Re: A Smith familly puzzle in 19th century Liverpool

Postby Mariner Aus » Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:00 am

Thanks JMck!

Regards

Pieter
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Re: A Smith familly puzzle in 19th century Liverpool

Postby ianbee » Tue Apr 24, 2018 3:44 pm

Don't forget Lancashire BMD
http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/index.php

Which has, in 1865
James Smith + Margaret A. Smith
at Childwall, All Saints
(registers at) Liverpool

And also confirms the marriage of William Crosby to Ellen Prewett.
The problem being that I'm not sure that Childwall marriages for the period are online.
New GRO birth index seems to confirm Margaret's maiden name -
June 1871 West Derby 8b 520
Smith, Helena
mother Smith
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