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Another record with no info.

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Re: Another record with no info.

Postby ianbee » Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:30 am

This is certainly intriguing.
Yes, Geo P Conway returned to England from Canada, arriving back 15 January 1914.
Age 31
Occupation Miner
Country of Intended Future Permanent Residence - England

TheViking wrote:I know he served in WW1 he received some sort of head injury unable to find any medical records from war too. I am unable to find any documents to support his time in the war also other than a medical card and a few war medals

What is the medical card? The SWB record?
But there are two scraps on findmypast, British Army Service Records, relating to George of the 5th Lancers.
First name(s) G
Last name Conway
Service number 6594
Regiment 5th Lancers

That service number is wrongly transcribed, it is 6584
12 General Hospital, Rouen
Progress Report, w/e 23/5/1915
Seriously Ill
Pte. Conway G. - 5/Lancers - G.S.W. Head (improving?)

and an earlier one
First name(s) G
Last name Conway
Service number 6584
Regiment King's Own (Royal Lancaster) Regiment
Unit / Battalion 5th Battalion

It actually says
(admitted 29.11.14)
6584 Pte. Conway G. - 5 Lancers - P.M. tympani (what is that?)

So that GSW Head could tie in with George's "head injuries during the war" mentioned in the inquest report in the Sheffield Daily Telegraph, 14 December 1929.

So now both these guys (if they are different people!), the 5th Lancer, and the would be emigrant to Canada, look rather like Viking's George Patrick?
What does Adrian think?
Ian
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Re: Another record with no info.

Postby ianbee » Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:01 am

Another question - if there were to have been a surviving army record for George Patrick, 6584, we would presumably have found it in the pension records in WO 364? Which aren't complete either?

Could Viking get the answer from the pension record cards? Coming some time on ancestry (or Fold3?)
http://www.westernfrontassociation.com/ ... s-underway
Ian
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Re: Another record with no info.

Postby AdrianB38 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:34 pm

Well spotted, Ian. The 2 hospital reports are the same person - and they are the Lancer from the Medal Index Card / Silver War Badge. Same regiment, same number. (Rant warning: I can understand confusing the 8 and 9, but interpreting 5 Lancers as 5th Battalion of the Royal Lancasters is plain sloppy!)

Now, the immigrant... I previously said that I didn't like the idea of the immigrant being the Lancer because I reckoned that the immigrant had been a miner 1905ish-1913.
"But the Lancer joined in May 1902 - only 3y before the emigrant became a miner. I didn't think cavalrymen would serve only 3y with the colours, so I'm becoming very dubious that the Lancer is this emigrant chap."


Curiously I've just found a snippet view book on Google The Harp and Crown, the History of the 5th (Royal Irish) Lancers, 1902 - 1922 which discusses periods of service. At the start of the 20th century, recruitment was 7y with the colours, 5y in the reserve. In 1904 it was changed to 3y with the colours and 9y reserve. Later that same year it changed to 8+4 and in 1905 to 7+5 (as it started!)

Now the Lancer would have signed up to 7+5 - but what happened in 1904? Did the 7+5 year men get offered the chance to move onto 3+9? And if the Lancer did move (and he didn't move again later...) then he'd be out in May 1902 + 3y = May 1905 - just when the immigrant becomes a miner!
Adrian
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Re: Another record with no info.

Postby AdrianB38 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:53 pm

ianbee wrote:Another question - if there were to have been a surviving army record for George Patrick, 6584, we would presumably have found it in the pension records in WO 364? Which aren't complete either? ...

Not necessarily - WO364 is not well understood. There's nothing like enough people in there to cover all pensioners, meaning some pensioners' records must have been in the Burnt Records. (Conversely there are guys in both the Burnt and so-called Pension Records!) So I think no-one understands why what's there, is there.

ianbee wrote:... Could Viking get the answer from the pension record cards? Coming some time on ancestry (or Fold3?) ...

Oh - didn't realise that was happening, thanks. (Rant warning 2 - I hope it's not their Fold3 subsidiary - but fear it will be) To be honest I've never got my head round Army pensions - there must have been a good chance of a disability pension for the Lancer? So a good chance of him being in the Western Front Association's Pension Record Cards - and one would hope that there'd be enough details there to settle if the Lancer was Viking's chap.... Yes, a lot of "hope" and fuzziness there...

I'm certainly coming to the view that there's a jolly decent chance that the Lancer is Viking's chap. But I'm nothing like certain.
Adrian
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Re: Another record with no info.

Postby TheViking » Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:24 pm

wow can I just thank you guys for your help you all blow my mind every time. in 1910-11 George was a minor and a lamp lighter he is recorded living in a village called shafton in Barnsley where he married his wife. his parents are also john and Bridget who are buried in parsonstown in Ireland and has patricks name also on the grave as it looks like he had it made but he used Patrick as his name but he is Irish haha it seems most men are Patrick in Ireland. so do we think George went to cananda ?
Last edited by TheViking on Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Another record with no info.

Postby ianbee » Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:04 pm

Hi
Well, it looks as though your George Patrick might have gone to Canada for a short while. Perhaps it didn't work out as he hoped. Had it done so, it would obviously have changed your family history just a bit!

A very big thank you from me to Adrian for those answers to my questions. I think I had some mistaken ideas about those pension records!
Viking, I could ask you why you think that grave contains your chap's parents, but I won't just now!
Ian
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Re: Another record with no info.

Postby TheViking » Tue Apr 24, 2018 3:39 pm

I would like to thank you all as it is an interesting read, I do say that I find it a little overwhelming sometimes as I do struggle with sieving out Georges records amongst all the others with his name on it, for instance I have found a prison record from Australia same name different birth date but I have been told sometimes it was marked down wrong so maybe it is still his but that's for another time and post.

as for now I am going to do some research into him going to Canada and see where I end up, George seems like he is full of mystery this guy excites me on what he was searching for in life. wow
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Re: Another record with no info.

Postby TheViking » Thu May 03, 2018 10:04 pm

ianbee wrote:This is certainly intriguing.
Yes, Geo P Conway returned to England from Canada, arriving back 15 January 1914.
Age 31
Occupation Miner
Country of Intended Future Permanent Residence - England

TheViking wrote:I know he served in WW1 he received some sort of head injury unable to find any medical records from war too. I am unable to find any documents to support his time in the war also other than a medical card and a few war medals

What is the medical card? The SWB record?
But there are two scraps on findmypast, British Army Service Records, relating to George of the 5th Lancers.
First name(s) G
Last name Conway
Service number 6594
Regiment 5th Lancers

That service number is wrongly transcribed, it is 6584
12 General Hospital, Rouen
Progress Report, w/e 23/5/1915
Seriously Ill
Pte. Conway G. - 5/Lancers - G.S.W. Head (improving?)

and an earlier one
First name(s) G
Last name Conway
Service number 6584
Regiment King's Own (Royal Lancaster) Regiment
Unit / Battalion 5th Battalion

It actually says
(admitted 29.11.14)
6584 Pte. Conway G. - 5 Lancers - P.M. tympani (what is that?)

So that GSW Head could tie in with George's "head injuries during the war" mentioned in the inquest report in the Sheffield Daily Telegraph, 14 December 1929.

So now both these guys (if they are different people!), the 5th Lancer, and the would be emigrant to Canada, look rather like Viking's George Patrick?
What does Adrian think?
Ian



Right ianbee I have been doing a little research on the word (tympani) you mentioned in your post and you will be surprised to know it does sort of tally up with an head injury, the tympani is actually a nerve in the head, The chorda tympani which is its right name is a branch of the facial nerve that originates from the taste buds in the front of the tongue, runs through the middle ear, and carries taste messages to the brain. It joins the facial nerve inside the facial canal, at the level where the facial nerve exits the skull via the petrotympanic fissure. I don't want to speculate on the chaps injury on the record you have found but as a person with a long line of inner ear problems I would imagine that the head injury described would have caused trama to the nerve which would cause tonic tensor tympani syndrome or TTTS, symptoms would be balance problems ,vertigo ,and a very loud ringing in the head or ears.
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Re: Another record with no info.

Postby TheViking » Thu May 03, 2018 10:18 pm

ianbee wrote:Hi
Well, it looks as though your George Patrick might have gone to Canada for a short while. Perhaps it didn't work out as he hoped. Had it done so, it would obviously have changed your family history just a bit!

A very big thank you from me to Adrian for those answers to my questions. I think I had some mistaken ideas about those pension records!
Viking, I could ask you why you think that grave contains your chap's parents, but I won't just now!
Ian


sorry ianbee I didn't have a chance to answer your question, I am 80% sure these are his parents as he also has a sister called Alice Conway who he lived with in the town of thurnscoe before he had taken his life, on her marriage certificate she also has the same parents as George, as for the reason George and Alice farther died in a workhouse in parsons town ireland during the great famine most of the dead are buried in the grave yard shown. as a newbie this might be a bad move id be interested to know what you think ?
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Re: Another record with no info.

Postby TheViking » Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:05 am

Good evening

First of all i would like to thank you all for the amazing help i have received from you all, i havent been on this site for a while due to family commitments, on the reaserch side through i have been able to confirm a lot of things you guys have come up with, but a lot of things are still shady but exciting.

George did actually serve as a soldier in the lancers as it happens as confermed by this document the soldier number is right too, it also confirms with a news story in the paper with his head injury, the address on the document confirms it is his,he lived at church street thurnscoe when two of his sons were born john and Stanley.

during the time of my break i have been able to contact the daughter of john (georges son) who is still around also with her sister who lives in Australia and her brother who lives in the next village to me it is amazing, anyway the daughter provided me with an amazing picture of george with a bandage around his head i guess this explains his head injury he was shot, she knows nothing at all of the location in the picture I would imagine a hospital in the uk ? i am still working on this and hoping to find more pictures if possible( if you guys know where i could look please comment) it would be good to find a full uniform picture.


she also confirmed of a story from her grandmother I think mentioned in the comments above by ianbee which I think is a fantastic find cheers mate :) (Georges wife Elizabeth) of George suddenly disappearing to Canada now she didn't know if this was true I guess it is now or why he disappeared this is more i need to work on i believe.

the lady i talk to was really close to george and actully got really upset when talking about the story she' heard, currently in ill-health I am hoping to discover why he escaped for a while what he did there as she's been living with the story for years and never got an end to it.


again I thank you all and thank you :)
Attachments
5C81C55B-40A9-4C68-B7EB-E0808D230D70.jpeg
5C81C55B-40A9-4C68-B7EB-E0808D230D70.jpeg (1.61 MiB) Viewed 1363 times
george with his son.jpg
George with his son and wife
george with his son.jpg (225.92 KiB) Viewed 1366 times
George in recovery after gun shot wound .jpg
George with his wound
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