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How can one ancestor cause so much TROUBLE !

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How can one ancestor cause so much TROUBLE !

Postby nuttree » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:14 pm

Bear with me this is quite a saga full of twists and turns.
From the 1861 and 1871 census Ann Maria ELLARD was born in 1843 in Birmingham both censuses agree
We have the birth certificate of her Daughter stating mother formerly STANFIELD from there we have found the Marriage by banns of Edward ELLARD aged 27 and Ann Maria STANFIELD age 17 on 2 Jul 1860 St Andrews Church Bordesley father William STANFIELD a caster. witnessed by one of Edward's sisters and her husband. On the marriage certificate he is a butcher residing in Bristol St this is between both bride and groom
Their first child was born a year after the marriage so there was no need for haste.
A fellow researcher has her son Edward's birth certificate also Ann Maria ELLARD formerly STANFIELD

There is a baptism at St Martins for Ann Maria Standfield Age: 3
Birth Date: 10 Nov 1842
Baptism Date: 10 Nov 1845
Father: William Standfield
Mother: Jemmie Standfield
abode Old Ickly? Wiliam a caster

But I cannot find William Stanfield on any other documents . Would a father have to be present at a child's baptism?
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Re: How can one ancestor cause so much TROUBLE !

Postby AdrianB38 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:24 pm

Step by step.... Have you looked for Anna Maria Stan(d)field's birth certificate/index? Or looked for her in the 1851?

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Re: How can one ancestor cause so much TROUBLE !

Postby nuttree » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:38 pm

Now this is where it gets a bit messy!
Have asked B'ham Registrar to look for a birth for 1843 of an Ann Maria STANFIELD in case it was not sent to GRO or not transcribed at GRO. None found. Without a registration its hard to find her birth
1851 at Farm Street , Parish of St. George, Birmingham HO107 Piece 2058 Folio 678 page 26
William STANFIELD Head M 24 Shoemaker Cheshire, Wilmslow
Mary Ann Wife M 28 Warwickshire, Birmingham
He is surely too young to be Ann Maria's dad and has the wrong occupation
No sign of ANN maria Stanfield or variation BUT there is this:
John GREATWOOD Head Mar 27 Fender Maker Worcester Kings Norton
Jemima Wife Mar 31 Warwick Birmm
Maria Daur U 8 Scholar Warwick Birmm
and a marriage in 1846
No. 97
Marriage solemnized at St Pauls Chapel in the Parish of St Martin Birmingham
in the County of Warwick
When July 12 1846

Name John GREATWOOD X Jamima STANFIELD
Age full age full age
Condition Bachelor Spinster
Rank Whitesmith -
Residence George Street Hill Street

Father John GREATWOOD James STANFIELD
Profession Labourer Coach Man

Married in the Chapel of St Paul
according to the Rites and Ceremonies of the Established Church after Banns
by me Rawn Kennedy Minister of St Pauls

in the presence of Joseph APPLEBY

But note Jemima was a spinster was this My Jemima and was MARIA MY 2x gt gran?

If so was Ann Maria's father William a caster but not necessarily a Stanfield???
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Re: How can one ancestor cause so much TROUBLE !

Postby nuttree » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:23 pm

Part 3
1861 Edward ELLARD with wife Ann RG 9/2120 fo 96 p30
1871Edward ELLARD 38 a Warehouse Man from Welloughby was with his wife Ann and children; Ann, Jemima and Edward. RG10/3105 fo 62 p11
But
1881Edward ELLARD 48 a Butcher from Willoughby was with his wife Caroline and son Edward. No trace has been found of Caroline. daughter Ann was in the same court. RG11/2973 fo115
Edward (Snr) died in 1885 following a fall and as there was a coroners report there is no other informant on his death certificate (we were hoping for a mention of a wife!)
Have a copy of a report of the inquest from the Birmingham Post
It is only 4 small column lines.
A verdict of "Accidental death" was returned in the case of Edward Allard <sic> (53), Journeyman butcher, 1 Court, Cheapside, who fell downstairs and fractured serveral of his ribs, injuries from which he died.
But it gives his address which is new he was living in a Court in Cheapside.
To add to the confusion there is this
1891 5 back 115 Tower St Birmingham (St Stephens)
in household of John Meads 46 Tube roller
Ann M Stanfield Serv Wid 44 Housekeeper (Domestic Serv) Birmingham
RG12/2387/98 Pg37
Death Q3 1894 Meads Ann Maria 47 Birmingham 6d 54
The age is a bit out but matches the Widow Ann M on the 1891 census
No marriage has been found John Meads died in 1897

Again this one can't be found on previous censuses Is she our Ann Maria if not who on earth is she??
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Re: How can one ancestor cause so much TROUBLE !

Postby nuttree » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:42 pm

looking back at John Greatwood and Jemima Stanfield
Jemima GREATWOOD died in 1870 and he married Elizabeth Rushton named their first daughter Jemima Elizabeth later Edward Ellard and Ann Maria named their second daughter Jemima Elizabeth...the first was Ann Maria. I think this adds strongly to the theory that this is my family
Do others think this is a reasonable conclusion?
But stand by there is a huge twist with the GREATWOODS coming!!
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Re: How can one ancestor cause so much TROUBLE !

Postby ermin79 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:16 pm

I took a look on the GRO site at all the Ann Maria's registered in Warwickshire in the quarter Oct - Dec 1842 (if the date of birth on baptism is correct) and none seem to have a mothers maiden name Stanfield (or variation thereof).

I was working on the premise that Ann Maria could have been registered under the fathers surname. I know this wasn't supposed to happen but have an example from 1841 myself. I also checked all females registered with no first name, again no surnames or mothers maiden names remotely like Stanfield. For the sake of completeness there is a birth for an Ann Maria Cartwright in Birmingham in the right period that does not show up on the GRO index search so i cannot check the maiden name of the mother.

None of this helps you get further forward sorry! I did however find a baptism on FMP for a Jemima Stanfield birth year 1819, baptised 4 Sep 1822 in Birmingham. Mother Ann Stanfield. No mention of a father James if this is the same Jemima ...

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Re: How can one ancestor cause so much TROUBLE !

Postby nuttree » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:32 am

Many thanks for trying I have also looked for the registration as you have with total failure I have taken that Jemima as mine I think this was her baptism

I should have also mentioned earlier that Jemima had a son William in June 1838
This is his burial:
St Mary's Birmingham 8.7.1838 William Stanfield Gough Street son of Jemima Stanfield 1month
but of course there is no birth or death registration for him nor a baptism!

Baptisms in the Parish of Saint Martin in Birmingham in the County of Warwick in September in the Year 1822
No 2539 4th Jemima Daur of Ann STANFIELD Church Street Single Woman J Gabett
Born 3d June 1819
<Printed Burial crossed out and Baptisms written in, new column headings and rules>
<One of 227 baptism on the same day 2360 <p296> to 2586 <p324>

Unfortunately she was a base born child and guess what so was her maother Ann!

I warn you this gets stranger and stranger
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Re: How can one ancestor cause so much TROUBLE !

Postby nuttree » Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:26 am

On her marriage to John Greatwood Jemima gave her father as James Stanfield a coach man and her adress was Hill Street We tried to find her in 1841
We failed to find Jemima but in Hill Street in 1841 we found:
HO107/1146/ 4 fo18 p 1
James G STANFIELD 50 Hawker n...

Was this James significant or was it a huge coincidence?
We followed him up a bit and found this 1851 census: HO107/2055 fo239 p20
James STANFIELD Head Mar 65 Hawker Derbyshire Buxton...
This lead us to a baotism for James on 25 Nov 1787 in Mellor Derby son of Edmund and Elizabeth
They also had a duagther Ann baptised 6 Jan 1792
So was this Ann mother of Jemima and was James the "father" ...really her uncle..,who bought her up?
Last edited by nuttree on Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How can one ancestor cause so much TROUBLE !

Postby ciderdrinker » Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:43 am

Hi
Looks like Ann Maria had a child before her marriage as well.
William Stanfield s of Maria of Gt King St 29.5.1860 at St Mathias Birmingham.
Looks like he died June qtr 1860 as William John Standfield.

In 1851 the family are together in Darwin Street
John Greatwood 27 fender maker Worc Kings Norton
Jemima 31 Birmingham
Maria 8 scholar Birmingham.

So you definitely have the right family

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Re: How can one ancestor cause so much TROUBLE !

Postby nuttree » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:05 am

oooh er we hadn't got that one cheers cider
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