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research in Ireland

A problem shared is a problem halved. Post your brick walls here and see whether you can offer advice to others

research in Ireland

Postby IrishAmeican » Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:41 pm

I'm guessing many, if not most family researchers have reached a point when they are forced to see themselves at a point (brick wall) and consider if paying a professional genealogist to find the keys to further their efforts, it appears that after over thirty years of digging I have reached that point, the question I would ask is "what are the chances of finding my family in Ireland before 1725?.
Thanks: Will McGuire
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Re: research in Ireland

Postby junkers » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:01 am

I think it does depend on what you want to find and the records may not all be in Ireland as the British Government had a big hand in Irish issues (try The National Archives, Kew) but if there were uprisings/civil unrest then the chances are better of finding individuals. It may be that there are no such records existing anymore. If your family was Catholic then might be more records but they may be held by the Priest rather than in an archive.
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Re: research in Ireland

Postby IrishAmeican » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:21 am

Thanks, I understand that, searching the archives hasn't turned up anything and without knowing where in Ireland, county, parish, etc. I have no direction, no areas to search, One thing I do know my ancestor was Presbyterian, at least by 1774 in Virginia, so likely in Ireland the family would have been a member of a Presbyterian congregation, but!! there were few Presbyterian churches in the colony and there were marriages in the New Amsterdam Dutch Reformed in New York in 1763 with girls of Scot descent, (McKinney), every new clue creates a new puzzle.

Will
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Re: research in Ireland

Postby MayHam » Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:42 pm

Am assuming your brick wall is referring to Lawrence Mcguire? Have you found his will? If you care to send additional information from the American side, I'll be happy to look for additional clues.
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Re: research in Ireland

Postby IrishAmeican » Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:24 am

I was referring to my Lawrence McGuire, his stated age as of July 1763 was 37 years, born in Ireland, I have no data other than his first known son was born about 1742 (calculated from his removal from the tax rolls, his second son was Joseph, born 09/1752 at East Town (Chester County, PA) the family was in Northampton County, PA in 1762 (a signer of a petition), the family eventually ended up in Bedford County, VA, living on a plantation owned by the widow of John Dixon (supposedly from Tyrone, Ireland) that died at sea in 1741, I've never found any connection with the Dixon family other than Lawrence being a witness in some court proceedings around ca. 1772, three of the family males served in the revolutionary war from Virginia, Lawrence died around 1786-1788 in Virginia, there was no will, I don't think his wife was still living and he owned no property. that's the early years in America.
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Re: research in Ireland

Postby MayHam » Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:53 pm

Thank you for the additional information.
Was intrigued by the following as it sounds like there were at least two Lawrence Mcguires.

"Lawrence McGuire, Sr. was probably born in Ireland about 1716, calculated based on the birth of his son, Lawrence, Jr. Lawrence, Jr. made a deposition in Bedford Co., VA in 1772 and reported his age as 35, or born 1737. Allowing for his father being age 21 in 1737 gives us the approximate date of 1716..."

"Lawrence, Sr.'s wife is unknown and children are thought to be: Lawrence, Jr. (1737-1807) John, (c1740-after 1805) James, (c1747-after 1787) Saby (c1750-after 1794) Joseph (1752-1839)"
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Mcguire-82

I believe you mentioned earlier about Mcguires marrying in New York City which I presume is referring to the following?

Lawrence McGuire
27 Dec 1763 (Banns NYC)= Mary McKenny (p. 214)
https://dcms.lds.org/delivery/DeliveryM ... =IE4043814
and
Name:
Lawrence McGuire
Event Type:
Marriage
Marriage Date:
27 Nov 1763
Marriage Place:
Manhattan, New York, USA
Church:
Collegiate Church
Spouse:
Mary McKnow
https://search.ancestry.ca/cgi-bin/sse. ... essSource')

I presume this could have been a second marriage? I searched the New York County land records during this time frame. Only found the following.
14 Jun 1782: Matthew McGuire (yeoman of NYC) & Ann Vanetta (wife) to Robert Walton Bk. 41 p. 60
Index p. 7
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=2078654
original deed
Index p. 529
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=2078654

27 Jun 1784 New York Co., NY land records: Mathew McGuire from Samuel Goensendy Re Exs of
Bk. 41 p. 63
Index p.10
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=2078654
original deed
Index p.530
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=2078654

Coincidentally, there was a Mathew McGuire (various spellings) and wife, Ann, who baptised at least two children in Dublin between 1712-1722.

Name:
Barrey Magueyer
Date of Birth:
10-Sep-1712
 
Date of Baptism:
18-Sep-1712
Address:
Dunlary
Parish/District:
MONKSTOWN
Gender:
Male
County
Co. Dublin

Denomination:
Church of Ireland

Father:
Mathew Magueyer
Mother:
Ann Not Recorded
Occupation:
Not Recorded

Sponsor 1 /
Informant 1:
Not Recorded 
Sponsor 2 /
Informant 2:
Not Recorded 

http://ifhf.rootsireland.ie/view_detail ... uth&page=2
original p.24
https://www.stbrigids300.com/uploads/6/ ... kstown.pdf

[Page 25 in book] Page 52. [No Entries.]
[Pages 53 and 54 missing.]
[Unfortunately, Lawrence could be one of those missing or is Barrey a mistranscription of Larrey?]

Name:
Jane MacGuire
Date of Birth:
17-Dec-1722
 
 
Date of Baptism:
26-Dec-1722
Address:
Not Recorded
Parish/District:
MONKSTOWN
Gender:
Female
County
Co. Dublin


Denomination:
Church of Ireland

Father:
Mathew MacGuire
Mother:
Ann Not Recorded
Occupation:
Not Recorded

Sponsor 1 /
Informant 1:
Not Recorded 
Sponsor 2 /
Informant 2:
Not Recorded 

Notes:
http://ifhf.rootsireland.ie/view_detail ... uth&page=1
original p.25
https://www.stbrigids300.com/uploads/6/ ... kstown.pdf


Name:
Jane
MacGuire
Date of Death:
07-Oct-1723

Age:
Not Recorded
Parish / District:
MONKSTOWN

Address:
Not Recorded
County:
Co. Dublin

Status:
Not Recorded
Denomination:
Church of Ireland

Occupation:
Not Recorded
Sex:
Female

Graveyard
Informant

Graveyard:
MONKSTOWN
Relationship:
Not Recorded

Parish:
MONKSTOWN
Name:
Not Recorded

County:
Co. Dublin
Address:
Not Recorded
http://ifhf.rootsireland.ie/view_detail ... uth&page=1
original p.58
https://www.stbrigids300.com/uploads/6/ ... kstown.pdf

Found a marriage in Dublin in 1708 for a Matthew Mcguire, gentleman, to Anne Barry.
Could Vanetta be her middle name?
First name(s)
Matthew
Last name
Maguire
Marriage year
1708
Year
1708
Event date
10 Mar 1708
Occupation
Gent
Spouse's first name(s)
Anne
Spouse's last name
Barry
Spouse's address
St Marys Dublin
Parish
St Andrews
County
Dublin
County as transcribed
Dublin
Country
Ireland
Married
Yes
Dead
No
Collection
Betham's genealogical abstracts from prerogative marriage licenses, 1629-1810
Series description
v. 9. K 1731-1799, L 1662-1800, M 1629-1638 v. 10. M 1662-1782 v. 11. M 1782-1799, N 1629-1800, O 1665-1799, P 1632-1684 v. 12. S 1721-1799, T 1630-1710 v. 13. Intestates and marriage licenses A-W, 1692-1695 v. 14. Intestates and marriage licenses A-Y,
File
Betham's Genealogical Abstracts Prerogative Marr. Lics. (Phillips Mss) M. 1662-1782
Source
Prerogative Ct Marces
Archive
National Archives of Ireland
Record set
Betham Prerogative Marriage Licences Abstracts, 1629-1810
Category
Birth, Marriage & Death (Parish Registers)
Subcategory
Parish Marriages
Collections from
Ireland
https://search.findmypast.com/record?id ... 00016893/1

I realize these are Church of Ireland records but recall reading in the 1640s, the "Presbyterians" and "Anglicans" joined to form the Solemn League and Covenant. I'm not sure if they would have continued to fellowship together in the 1700s or not?

Perhaps, you have more information, though, especially about Widow Dixon?
Hope this information may be of some use. Cheers.
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Re: research in Ireland

Postby IrishAmeican » Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:11 pm

The marriage re: Lawrence McGuire
Event Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 27 Nov 1763
Marriage Place: Manhattan, New York, USA
Church: Collegiate Church
Spouse: Mary McKnow (Mary McKinney was a granddaughter of Mordecai McKinney of Hunterdon County, N.J. this marriage is similar to the marriage in the New Amsterdam Dutch Reformed (Manhattan), appears to be the same marriage of Lawrence and Mary McKinney. This was Lawrence McGuire (1742), he also enlisted in the New York colonial militia on 22 December, 1763, mustering in January 6, 1764 under Capt John Grant

Yes, there were three Lawrence McGuire's, ca.1725, ca. 1742 and 1774, and some as a middle name after that, Lawrence 1725, served in the 8th VA regt, Lawrence 1742 served in the 14th VA regt, another son, Joseph served in the Bedford County, VA militia.

My interest lies in finding where in Ireland my family came from, the facts I know is, they were Presbyterian but in some cases worshiped in the Dutch Reformed Churches (their rituals were similar), Lawrence sr. (1725) apparently was fluent with the local Indian languages in Northampton County, PA and also the local Dutch/German language, after re-locating to Virginia about 1768, he enlisted in the 8th VA in 1776, traveling some distance to Woodstock to enlist under Rev. Col. Peter Muhlenberg and Capt John Bowman, both from Berks County, PA, Lawrence's militia papers were found in the PA archives in Conrad Weisers archive (Conrad was Muhlenbergs bro- in-law).
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