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Were there other children?

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Were there other children?

Postby nuttree » Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:20 pm

We have Joseph FROUD married to Lilias Love BLANE in AYR. he was a brave soldier of the 2 Btn Royal Scots Fusiliers...he held the DSM with bar and was CSM
The problem is how many children did they have and where?
1911 they are in Londonderry with one daughter Winefred Leslie aged 1
Then I have seen electoral rolls with Joseph and Lilias with Mercy Rosina A and Robertha Alison.
Mercy Rosina's names occassionaly reverse to Rosina Mercy anyway she is named after her paternal grand mother. Her death in 1997 gives her birth as 20 July 1911 but where? Robertha's BIRTH is shown on FMP IN Sealkote, India (Gro Army Birth Indices (1881 To 1965) and her death gives her birthday as 21 JUL 1925
How can I find if there were any other children to the couple and if so where were they born and what happened to Winefred she is not on the electoral rolls with the parents and other two sisters.
Last edited by nuttree on Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Were there other children?

Postby JMcK » Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:34 pm

Mercy Rosina Ap. FROUD. B 1911 Ayr. (On Scotland’s people). And in 1909 there is a Sarah Mitchell FROUD birth also in Ayr, so am assuming same family. Costs credits to look.

No sign of Winifred though, even though that Londonderry census says she was born in Ayrshire crossed out, replaced by Scotland.

THere doesn’t seem to be a death in Scotland for either Sarah or Winifred
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Re: Were there other children?

Postby JMcK » Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:11 pm

But in 1929 there is a marriage for. Sarah Mitchell W. L FROUD. To Eugene Allan. Woolwich 1d 1703
According to her death in 1979 her birth date was 12 oct 1909
And her probate notice gives her full name as Sarah Mitchell Winifred Leslie ALLAN
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Re: Were there other children?

Postby JMcK » Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:28 pm

In 1939 she’s listed as Leslie Allan with Winifred written above. Eugene is a government canteen manager, 2 redacted entries and a son Ian F b 5 June 1936.
The other 2 children are in Ancestry Births b 1930 and 1931 Orsett Essex
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Re: Were there other children?

Postby JMcK » Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:52 pm

You’ve probably seen that Robertha married in 1964 and had a son in 1965. And died in 1989
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Re: Were there other children?

Postby JMcK » Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:09 pm

Do you suspect that Robertha was not Lilian’s daughter? The entry on FMP has details in the Slave Owner line.
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Re: Were there other children?

Postby nuttree » Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:09 pm

Goodness well many thanks for all this it has sorted Winefred out nicely. Joseph and Lilias were married 25 June 1909 so the daughter arrived in great haste! Lilias' mother had been Sarah Mitchel so that explains the first part of the daughter's name and second daughter was named after his mother all nice and neat.
I hadn't seen the reference to the Slave Owner line will check that out asp
Thank you for what you have uncovered so far its becoming a very interesting line.
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Re: Were there other children?

Postby JMcK » Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:11 am

And I just realised the Ap...of Mercy Rosina’s name is likely Appleby

I seem to remember on one of the WDYTYA tv programmes in India (Billy Connolly’s ?). They said if there was a baptism and only the father was named it was usually because the mother was Indian
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Re: Were there other children?

Postby nuttree » Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:22 am

Ok I can now see the entry you have re slave owners I had perviously found the "British Armed Forces And Overseas Births And Baptisms" entry for Sealkote. Surely it must be the same child. Were the Royal Scots in Sealkote in 1925? What would happen to the families while the soldiers were in INDIA
Robertha Alison is with Joseph and Lilias on all the electoral rolls. Would Lilias have just accepted some one else's child and just carry one as if it was not an unusual situation? She must have been a very forgiving wife and foster mother. Would Lilias have been in India with him or how was the baby bought back to Britain? Its opened up a whole new line for discussion. It would explain the big gap between Mercy and Robertha so probably there are no other missing children to find after all. Unles...where else did he serve away from home???

I like the idea that Mercy Rosina's A could well be "Appleby" good thinking.
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Re: Were there other children?

Postby Sylcec » Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:26 am

I have been looking at the British India records on Findmypast. These refer to both birth registrations through the British Army/Regimental records which can be purchased through the GRO at Southport; and also the baptism records held in the India Office Records at the British Library. Because the events concerned happened within the last 100 years details of the IOR records are not available on-line, only a basic index. The IOR records can be viewed at the BL, and possibly on-line providing you attend an LDS Family History Centre to do so.

I have no idea where the concept of "slave owners" records comes from, but am fairly confident that the reference should be taken with a grain of salt. (Ignore it).
Dorothy Elizabeth Froud was baptised 1921 at St John the Baptist in Roorkee
Robertha Alison Froud was baptised 1925 at St Patrick, Dalhousie, Bengal

A certain number of soldiers per regiment were permitted to take their wives and families with them when deployed overseas, "on the strength" - which means they were victualled and housed at the regiment's expense. Used to be up to 100 soldiers, and longer serving and NCOs would be given precedence. I don't know what the rules were in respect of this by the 1920s - Adrian will probably have more idea.
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