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Birth Certificate mystery

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Re: Birth Certificate mystery

Postby DoggedDetermination » Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:33 pm

AntonyM - I think Ianbee confirmed the birth as Bottrill, can’t see a posting for Jones?
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Re: Birth Certificate mystery

Postby DoggedDetermination » Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:36 pm

Sorry AntonyM, just seen the rest of Ianbee’s post, thanks (and thanks Ianbee)
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Re: Birth Certificate mystery

Postby DoggedDetermination » Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:58 pm

AntonyM the Charles William Bottrill birth was 29 June 1918 the Charles William Jones birth is July/Aug/Sept quarter. That could still be the same person?
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Re: Birth Certificate mystery

Postby AntonyM » Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:16 pm

DoggedDetermination wrote:AntonyM the Charles William Bottrill birth was 29 June 1918 the Charles William Jones birth is July/Aug/Sept quarter. That could still be the same person?


Yes - date of registration is what matters, so quite normal for late June births to appear in the Jul-Sep index.
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Re: Birth Certificate mystery

Postby AdrianB38 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:32 pm

Capture.JPG
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Easy to be wise after the event, but if you search in FreeBMD for the 1918 and 1938 entries, there is a arrow and flash against the 1939 entry, and when you follow that link, you get the usual stuff but also the extra text:

The above transcription represents what is in the GRO index but it is referred to by the following entry
Births 1918 Sep: Bottrill,Charles W,Jones,Walsall,6b,Dec 38
which implies that this is a late entry, that is an entry that has been registered in a quarter later than the event. See here https://www.freebmd.org.uk/late-entry-help.html for more information on late entries.


The 1918 entry is less clear because you need to realise that it's not a page but Dec 38 and if you go to the Info link, you get text saying, amongst other things:
This entry appears to be a late entry referring to the following
Births 1938 Dec: Bottrill,Charles W,Jones,Walsall,6b,881

And if you look at the scan of the page, the 1918 entry is a handwritten note at the bottom of the page.

I haven't read through that "Late Entry" help myself - it's probably fairly generic. So I'm not certain that all would have been clear to me from reading the entries and help but there's a lot more help there from FreeBMD than I'd realised.
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Re: Birth Certificate mystery

Postby DoggedDetermination » Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:58 pm

AdrianB38 - Amazing! What can I say, I have so much to learn!! Thank you.
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Re: Birth Certificate mystery

Postby DoggedDetermination » Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:13 pm

Forgive my ignorance, does this mean that he was not originally registered as Charles William Jones?
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Re: Birth Certificate mystery

Postby AdrianB38 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:33 pm

DoggedDetermination wrote:Forgive my ignorance, does this mean that he was not originally registered as Charles William Jones?

My belief based on logical guessing and not based on the evidence of the content of the certificates, is that he was indeed registered in 1918 under Jones. Possibly clearer if we look at the image pages from FreeBMD (bless them - I never imagined that they'd have all this explanation!)...

Capture1.JPG
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This is a snip of the 1918 Jones index entry that we are assuming is him.

Capture2.JPG
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And here's a bigger snip (so you probably need to scroll up and down and / or side to side on the image) of the 1918 Bottrill entry - the one that includes the "Dec 38" amendment text. It's on the 1918 page and you can see where it would go if it were typed in properly when that page was written up in 1918/1919 (because "x marks the spot" - twice). However, it's a handwritten update down at the bottom, referring you forward to the entry made in Dec 1938 - so obviously the update was written in Dec 1938-ish.

And I have also learned most of this today so thanks to the guys above and FreeBMD.
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Re: Birth Certificate mystery

Postby DoggedDetermination » Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:09 am

Thank you everyone for your help and advice, most appreciated!

Teresa T
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Re: Birth Certificate mystery

Postby DoggedDetermination » Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:46 pm

As suggested, I contacted the GRO to request the original 1918 birth certificate, I received this reply:

Birth Certificate: Charles William Bottrill

Thank you for your enquiry.

Unfortunately, we were unable to issue a certificate from the reference September 1918 6b 38 which is the reference you have quoted in your application as the birth was not registered until 1938 at reference December 1938 6B 881, which is the entry you have received.

We regret that we are unable to accept the return of the certificate or issue a refund as the certificate matches information given in your application.

We are sorry you have received the same certificate twice. I have checked your account and it appears you have only been charged £9.25, if you wish to return one of the certificates to us, please use the SAE sent out to you under separate cover.

Does this mean that the birth was never registered? Or, as suggested by another member, is it because it was registered under the name Charles W Bottrill.

I’m now rather confused!
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