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George Frederick Helsden born 22/12/1822

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Re: George Frederick Helsden born 22/12/1822

Postby Justmaz » Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:17 pm

Married at sea, that is another possibility we hadn’t thought of! But, having said that, what about the children? Is it possible they were all at sea I wonder? This is so intriguing ... thank you
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Re: George Frederick Helsden born 22/12/1822

Postby sparrow » Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:31 pm

Sadly England and Wales death certificates are not very helpful at all compared to say Australian ones (which give both parents).All you will get apart from cause of death and address is the name of the informant. probably his wife (by whatever name!).
The GRO (General Register Office) site will give details of what is on the various certificates at any given time (it varied a bit):
https://www.gov.uk/government/collectio ... amily-tree

THE PDF trial is quite new and it's brilliant if (like me) you are not resident in the UK.Apart from the lower price (3 for the price of 2) not having to wait for several weeks (literally checking the mail box every day!) is great.
Good hunting!


As regards the marriage at sea: probably not (at least in legally recognised form).But following the timeline suggestion: banns were read June 1856 and by 10 December 1856 their son Charles Edward Helsden was born in Essex where George was now a coastguard (not sure if you can get his date of appointment?).
So to put it bluntly in June 1856 Charlotte was already 3 months pregnant and with GFH presumably on the point of 'retiring' to life on shore some way of formalising their relationship must have seemed prudent.
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Re: George Frederick Helsden born 22/12/1822

Postby ianbee » Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:18 pm

The extra info on the 1849 Stoke Damerel burial record of Esther is that she died 25 April.
Buried 30th April. Age 22.
Abode may be Barrack St?
What you should get on the death certificate - in the occupation column - is details of her husband (if married) or possibly her father (if single).

The first sighting that we have of GF is on the Bellisle, 26 Oct 1841 - 7 Feb 1842.
Then, as said, he did a runner - the Bellisle was apparently then in Rio de Janeiro.
http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/18-1900/B/00519.html
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Re: George Frederick Helsden born 22/12/1822

Postby Justmaz » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:26 pm

Thank you sparrow and Ian for the exra help and information. Can we be sure that GFH actually did a runner and was not just wounded ?
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Re: George Frederick Helsden born 22/12/1822

Postby AdrianB38 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:39 pm

Justmaz wrote:... Can we be sure that GFH actually did a runner and was not just wounded ?

Yes - back on the first page (phew!) I noted that
According to Ancestry's "UK, Naval Officer and Rating Service Records, 1802-1919", he served on the Viper as George Fletcher - presumably because he "ran" from the Belleisle - i.e. deserted

It's actually got "ran" or "run" on the page in his Ratings Service Record, and that means deserted.
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Re: George Frederick Helsden born 22/12/1822

Postby Justmaz » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:00 am

Thank you all for the amazing links. Adrian, we have looked again at GFH having run from the Belleisle and together with Ian’s link we have pieced together what we believe happened. GFH jumped ship from the Belleisle in Rio de Janeiro on 7/2/42 and went missing for a couple of months (probably enjoying what Rio had to offer). We think he may have had a bit of pay in his pocket but this inevitably ran out and he needed to earn and get home. The Viper was in Rio so GFH joined that ship as George Fletcher on 23/4/1842 giving him earning potential and passage home.
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Re: George Frederick Helsden born 22/12/1822

Postby sparrow » Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:39 am

Thank goodness something fits together.
Meanwhile looking at that 1856 (non) marriage here is another puzzle:I'm not at all sure Charlotte was a widow. There are naval records at the National Archives for both her husband Thomas and her eldest son Thomas (these are available as paid downloads). Given the likelihood that it is Charlotte, rather than Esther, who is your ancestor these might be of interest. Certainly the first is likely to shed light on the situation in 1856.
As mentioned earlier the only known bigamist in my own family tree is female though we normally consider it a male 'crime'.
Incidentally though I can't be certain about the Cheetham family I think William and Martha may be the names of Thomas senior's parents.
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Re: George Frederick Helsden born 22/12/1822

Postby Justmaz » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:39 am

Just another little something we have found (you are such good motivators !) about George which surprised us and may also surprise you ..... GFH was on the Vulture and he was honoured with the Baltic Medal for the Crimean war (1853/56ish) which he sent home in 1857 to Harwich (Brightlingsea) which at least places the family in Brightlingsea before the 1861 census.
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Re: George Frederick Helsden born 22/12/1822

Postby Justmaz » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:07 pm

Thanks sparrow, our father, who was trying to trace his roots some 30 years ago (he passed away in 1993 never having got further than GFH) always had Charlotte as GFH’s spouse but we laboured under the impression that it was Esther because that is the only marriage we could find. So we have had Esther as our great great grandmother and not Charlotte....with all the mixed census this is the only conclusion we could come to as the marriage was the only concrete piece of evidence we had. I do hope we can get to the bottom of it but we are just hopeful that we can find parents for GFH because we believe once we get passed that stumbling block it may get just a little easier.
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Re: George Frederick Helsden born 22/12/1822

Postby ianbee » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:09 pm

Well found, sparrow!
So in those records are
Thomas Cheetham, born 5 June 1845, Torpoint
date of volunteering 7 June 1859
and
Thomas Cheetham, born 28 September 1820, Rotterdean
date 3 October 1853

Allotment Declarations help us too - wife is Charlotte

There is a baptism at Rottingdean, 10 November 1822
Thomas Henry
parents William + Sarah Cheatum
father a Boat Officer
Image is here (need to be logged in)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=244182

Take into account a baptism of Caroline Cheatum in January 1821, Thomas likely was a couple of years younger than his navy records suggest.
Martha in the census may then be a second wife for William?
Also on TNA
Thomas CHEETHAM; Rating; Born: Rottendean?; Age on entry: 17; Dates served: 6 June 1838-14 October 1846

And this is from ADM 29, and is on ancestry - UK, Naval Officer and Rating Service Records, 1802-1919
From which we also have that valuable record for George F Helsden/George Helston/Geo Fletcher.

Don't wan't to harp on about it, but it does say Rottendean on the image, which does then appear to be the place of birth (Rottingdean) for Thomas Cheetham! And written by the entries for George Helston/Helsden we saw Greenwich written (in brackets). Was this an alternative place of birth that he gave, where he grew up? Does not seem to be in Greenwich Hospital School Admissions (TNA)
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