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George Frederick Helsden born 22/12/1822

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Re: George Frederick Helsden born 22/12/1822

Postby sparrow » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:53 pm

Don't want to raise your hopes but have just located a record for a JAMES HELSDON in "England, Dreadnought Seamen's Hospital Admissions and Discharges" on Ancestry.

He was born in Yarmouth Norfolk in 1804, enlisted in London age 14 and (if I am reading the record correctly) he served as a ship's cook in the Merchant Navy.Last ship served on was the "Julia" (which I can't trace) and he was hospitalised with partial paralysis.Record seems to suggest he recovered.

Age seems very young to have fathered GFH!

By the way if you are interested in the Magee family check out Cornwall Online Parish Clerks:http://www.opc-cornwall.org/Gives deaths for Peter and Mary and baptisms of two children (not your two!).
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Re: George Frederick Helsden born 22/12/1822

Postby ianbee » Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:53 pm

I've been thinking about this, we've already had the entries discussed by Adrian

Royal Navy Officers' and Ratings' Service Records
George F HELSDEN; Rating; Born: [Not Given]; Age on entry: 20; Dates served: 26 October 1841-16 April 1846; Date and Type of Application: Whitehall 9 November 1852 and other
George HELSTON; Rating; Born: Greenock; Age on entry: [Not Given]; Dates served: 26 October 1841-16 April 1846; Date and Type of Application: Whitehall 9 November 1852 and other
George FLETCHER; Rating; Born: [Not Given]; Age on entry: [Not Given]; Dates served: 26 October 1841-16 April 1846; Date and Type of Application: Whitehall 9 November 1852 and other

Is this reference to Greenock really meant to be a place of birth? Obviously not the Tagas/Tagar!
And it actually seems to me to say Greenwich
Which is not far from where he ended up and died.

And how certain can we be that George Frederick's father was James? Yes, he says that on the marriage record, but they are not always accurate!
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Re: George Frederick Helsden born 22/12/1822

Postby ianbee » Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:11 pm

Ploughing on (may all be unconnected)
Baptism of Robert Helsdon, 22 Sep 1819, St Alphege, Greenwich
Parents Henry and Margaret.
Father a Pensioner
born 8 Septr last

Later is a burial of Robert at Greenwich (Greenwich Hospital)
22 June 1821
Robert Helsdon, age 1 year 9 months
abode Greenwich

The only marriage I can see is after that baptism. But both bride and groom are widowed. Relevant or not?
20 November 1820, St Paul Deptford
Henry Helsdon and Margaret Riggon

Just after that, 19 December 1820, another baptism at St Alphege
Frederick George
parents Henry and Margaret Helsdy
abode Church St
father a Pensioner
Says he was born 26th November last (no, not quite the birthdate we are looking for)
Attachments
Frederick George Helsdy.JPG
Frederick George Helsdy.JPG (31.22 KiB) Viewed 1079 times
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Re: George Frederick Helsden born 22/12/1822

Postby ianbee » Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:53 pm

Continuing with this (diversion?)
Burial of a Henry Helsdon
23 January 1824
age 44
Greenwich Hospital

Is this him?
Royal Navy, (Entry Book of) Greenwich Pensioners
admitted 20 May 1814
Henry Helsden
age 35
Consumption
ship last served in Ceres
wife Anne
born Norwich
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Re: George Frederick Helsden born 22/12/1822

Postby Justmaz » Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:56 pm

The postings on this site has stimulated all sorts of thoughts because the only reference to James we truly have is on GFH wedding certificate, which is something we have always been concerned about because my grandfather changed the name of his father on his wedding certificate but we gather that was probably because Adolphus Rodney Helsden emigrated and left my grandfather and his sister on the streets (Yes very nice person).
The other thing we have thought about is the names of GFH's children: Martha: Frederick: Charles: Georgina: Augustus: Adolphus Rodney. Do they sound like typical British names of around the mid 1800's?
I know that this is an island but it appears to us that GFH and the family loved the sea/water and most of them didn't appear to stray far from it.
Just a thought when somebody such as GFH joined the navy around 1841 at the age of 20 years did they have to "sign up" and if they did are the documents still available, although I appreciate that the surname Helsden could have been spelt a number of ways because he couldn't read or write.
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Re: George Frederick Helsden born 22/12/1822

Postby sparrow » Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:21 am

quick comment: the names of children are not as surprising as they might appear (apart typically from your ancestor!).martha and frederick are actually from Charlotte's first marriage to Thomas Cheetham. Georgina is simply female version of George and Augustus believe it or not is the name of esther and Charlotte's brother.

So there is really no significant clue at all to GFH's birth family.Could suggest he knew very little about them himself.

Possible earlier DOB is interesting but I'd have expected him to overstate his age at enlistment. Of course it could be a case of the earlier Frederick George having died and (as was common) the names being used again?
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Re: George Frederick Helsden born 22/12/1822

Postby Justmaz » Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:13 am

Hi sparrow, can I just ask how you came to the conclusion that Martha and Frederick were in fact Cheethams? We were under the impression that they were Helsden’s. I have looked and I can’t, at the moment anyway, find any births registered for them in the name of Cheetham. Thanks in anticipation.
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Re: George Frederick Helsden born 22/12/1822

Postby AdrianB38 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:24 am

So far as I remember, the 1851 census for Charlotte includes her and the 2 children - Ian Bee describes it further up the thread - and describes them as Cheetham.

Of course, who their real father is, if they were registered and under what name is another matter!


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Re: George Frederick Helsden born 22/12/1822

Postby ianbee » Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:21 pm

There was also a later birth
Sep 1853 St Germans 5c 39
Cheetham, William Henry
mother Magee

What became of him?
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Re: George Frederick Helsden born 22/12/1822

Postby sparrow » Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:25 pm

Here are the births for Martha and Frederick from the GRO index:
CHEETHAM, MARTHA JANE MEGEE
GRO Reference: 1847 D Quarter in ST GERMANS UNION Volume 09 Page 94
and
CHEETHAM, FREDERICK
GRO Reference: 1850 D Quarter in ST GERMANS UNION Volume 09 Page 99

It does seem that Frederick at least was happy to be known by the surname HELSDEN. Have not managed to sight Martha after 1861.


(Would be interesting to try to trace their father Thomas Henry Cheetham.Did he die in the early 1850s or simply disappear?)


All of this does leave us with no clues at all as regards GFH's parents and birth family from the names he gave his children, and that might suggest he knew very little about them.If the James Helsdon I mentioned above (hospital admission) was his father, where was his mother? And if he did not enlist until late 1841 theoretically he should be somewhere on land in the 1841 Census.
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