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George Frederick Helsden born 22/12/1822

A problem shared is a problem halved. Post your brick walls here and see whether you can offer advice to others

Re: George Frederick Helsden born 22/12/1822

Postby sparrow » Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:16 am

I did do some more searching last night (newspapers, I only have the basis Gale Newsvault) looking for shipping in 1822.There doesn't seem to have been any naval action near the Tagus in late 1822 which would 'confirm' that it was a merchant ship.
Apparently not at all unusual to have women on ships and children born there but what I haven't found any info on yet was whether children were then brought up on ships.


So: no further! Though ironically I did find a George Frederick from my own family so one less brick wall!
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Re: George Frederick Helsden born 22/12/1822

Postby Justmaz » Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:48 am

We always believed that James was in the merchant navy or perhaps employed by a private company because GFH was born on board ship and although we appreciate that there are exceptions, would James want his wife/partner or his son to be born on a warship? We appreciate that it was a different world then and the ordinary people were very poor so perhaps they were living on board ship if that was allowed because that would have been a cheap way to survive although it appears strange to us now, but thinking about it again perhaps that is the reason we cannot trace the family on land.

Pleased: "Its all in all one less brick in the wall".... the help and guidance you and the other members of this site have given us you deserve a "sledge hammer!!!"

:roll:
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Re: George Frederick Helsden born 22/12/1822

Postby sparrow » Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:21 pm

Had grandchildren arriving for the day so no chance to check/post the link I found a while back about women/children on board ship https://www.marinersmuseum.org/sites/mi ... a/navy.htm

Worth reading the whole section.

Have a case in my own family (well my husband's, not direct ancestor) from the 1810s with a merchant navy husband, wife presumably accompanying husband to sea, one child born in Bremen (Germany) and baptised several years later when they were back in England.She had older children, goodness knows where they were (not with their grandmother!! -just possibly with two older half sisters).She was a VERY interesting woman!!!

My random find last night (again not direct ancestor) was someone who joined the British equivalent of the French Foreign Legion in the 1830s.Well THAT was a surprise...
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Re: George Frederick Helsden born 22/12/1822

Postby Justmaz » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:22 pm

Thank you, we had not thought of seriously looking at the problem from GFH mothers point of view so having read the article about women/children on board ship was indeed an eye opener, from the article it appears that there would not be a record of mum, not that we know her name which doesn't help.
One of the many things that mystify us is that we still cannot find any reference to James in the navy but surely the family has to be there somewhere, well that's what I tell myself when my eyes are doing the conger in the early hours of the morning.
Just a thought but how did you trace the child born in Germany??
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Re: George Frederick Helsden born 22/12/1822

Postby sparrow » Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:40 am

As regards the birth in Germany there have been various branches of the family working on him for many years, I'm a latecomer! So the birth information comes partly from within the family (place of birth) and also from the later baptism record (which gives date of birth, two years earlier) which does make life easy.

Most people do seem to have been baptised eventually (but sometimes only just before marriage, as was so with this "ancestor's" half sisters).So there is always a hope of finding GFH that way eventually, probably by accident.It was SUCH an easy name to mistranscribe unfortunately
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Re: George Frederick Helsden born 22/12/1822

Postby Justmaz » Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:41 am

I believe that because my Great Grandfather skipped the country and apparently didn't make his new family aware of his family in Britain the info passed down the line was limited to the point whereby our grandfather wasn't even sure of his birthday (strange how one decision made decades ago can break the link).
We found a George Frederick Helsden last month that we didn't know existed he was baptized in 1859, hoping to find that it was our GFH that had been baptized later in life, we thought it was our break though but unfortunately in the end we found it was another son of our GFH with the same first names sadly junior died 5 months later.
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Re: George Frederick Helsden born 22/12/1822

Postby Justmaz » Wed May 23, 2018 8:04 pm

Hi All
As you are probably aware son of GFH was Adolphus Rodney Helsden and around 1912 he emigrated to Australia, as we are treading water at present we wondered if we could contact one of the descendants of Adolphus in the hope that they may have further information regarding GFH and his father James?
We managed to locate two email addresses of Adolphus descendants that were "live" in 2006 but unfortunately they are no longer in use. We wonder if any members had been in a similar situation and had success in contacting distant branches of the family and how.
Kind regards
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Re: George Frederick Helsden born 22/12/1822

Postby happyfeet48 » Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:08 am

Hi Mazz,
I am Adolphus Rodney Helsdens Granddaughter he and my Grandmother and 4 girls 1 being my Mother and her two sisters but not knowing who the other girl was arrived in Australia in 1925, they came from Cape Town South Africa to I think Portsmouth England then boarded the ship The Baradine in 1925....I was in touch with Alan Gagg a few years ago, he was the one who told me about Adolphus leaving his two Children William and Florence on a street corner in London, my Mum passed away in 1974 and did not know anything about his other Family, my Aunt is still alive in her ninties and she knew nothing about it either, I have also been trying to find out where George was born to no evail, and my Grandmother Millicent Emily Saunders is also one of my biggest Brickwalls all I know is she was born in London but where...I have the Death Cert for Adolphus and it states Esther as his mother and George as a Seaman.
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Re: George Frederick Helsden born 22/12/1822

Postby elsabels » Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:41 pm

Wish I had found this first :o
http://www.alangagg.f2s.com/Helsden-Family-History.htm

As a late comer I will start with Adolphus Rodney HELSDEN
HELSDEN, ADOLPHUS RODNEY MAGEE
GRO Reference: 1871 J Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND Volume 02B Page 406

Married
St Luke, Deptford, Lewisham, England
25 Dec 1889
Adolphus Rodney Helsden Age: 19 Father: George Frederick Helsden
Jane Waller

Death
Jane Helsden
Age: 40
Birth Date: abt 1870
Death Date: 22 Jun 1910
Death Poor Law Union: Greenwich

Issue
William Charles Adolphus Helsde
married Ellen Catherine 1916 staed his father was William Charles Helsden a Farmer

Death
Name: William Charles Adolphus Helsden [William Charles Helsden]
Death Date: 3 Dec 1963 Death Place: London, England
Probate Date: 11 Feb 1964 Registry: London, England
Probate Granted to William Thomas Helsden & Annie Elizabeth Sadie Russell married woman

Florence Jane ( Margaret)
According to the workhouse report May 1911, it is known that the father was in RSA
married
St John the Baptist, Kentish Town, Camden,
Marriage Date: 11 Aug 1923Florence Margaret Helsdlen
Florence Margaret aged 20 yet again the purported father is Wm Charles a carman married Thomas Franklin

Married (2?)Millicent Emily Saunders do you know her birth date?
Issue
Alethea Sibil Helsden
Event Type Baptism
Event Date 06 Jun 1920
Event Place Orange Free State, South Africa
Parent Name Charles Helsden
Parent 2 Name Millicent Helsden
Page 10 Entry Number 39

Gabrielle Florence Helsden
Event Type Baptism
Event Date 29 Apr 1923
Event Place Orange Free State, South Africa
Parent Name Adolphus Rodney Helsden
Parent 2 Name Millicent Helsden
Page 81 Entry Number 340

Albert Rodney Helsden
Gender: Male
Residence Date: 26 Apr 1925
Residence Place: 29 Prince Street
Occupation: Pensioner
Spouse: Milicent
Child: Marguerite Rosare Helsden
Church: Addington Christ Church

The Sydney Morning Herald (NSW : 1842 - 1954) Fri 25 Jul 1941
HELSDEN The Relatives and Friends of
Mrs M HELSDEN and FAMILY, OF Hill-
view, Chaseling Avenue, Punchbowl are invited
to attend the Funeral of her beloved HUS-
BAND and their FATHER, Adolphus Rodney
Helsden (late Rhodesian SA Railways): to
leave our Chapel, South Terrace, Bankstow
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Re: George Frederick Helsden born 22/12/1822

Postby elsabels » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:27 pm

Charlotte CHEETHAM / CHATHAM
1851 Census
H107 1900 174 29
Charlotte Chatham 1824 Devonport
Thomas Chatham 5
Martha 3
Frederick 3 months
Children all born Torpoint ( Anthony)Cornwall

1861
RG 9; Piece: 1523; Folio: 48; Page: 20
Thomas Henry John Cheetham 15 Mariner Torpoint
Living in the household of Jane Luxor nee Magee

Frederick Helsden
married Ann Burgess 1869 Liverpool stated father was George Frederick Helsden a coast guard
issue Charlotte b 1870 liverpool
Frederick 1874 Augustus West Derby
He died 1916

CHEETHAM, THOMAS HENRY JOHN MAGEE
GRO Reference: 1845 J Quarter in ST GERMANS UNION Volume 09 Page 93

CHEETHAM, MARTHA JANE MEGEE
GRO Reference: 1847 D Quarter in ST GERMANS UNION Volume 09 Page 94

CHEETHAM, FREDERICK -
GRO Reference: 1850 D Quarter in ST GERMANS UNION Volume 09 Page 99

Thomas Henry Cheetham senior was alive in 1859 when he made a British Royal Navy Allotment Declaration in favour of Charlotte. He is described as Captain of The Main Top vessell Portland
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