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Probate query

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Probate query

Postby Robin1 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:36 am

Hi Can anyone help with explaining what is a wrapper on Probate records? I think I have identified some wills to send off from Lancashire archives at Preston for John Garside of Quarlton, Bolton Le Moors and the content includes a will, administration bond, afiidit and wrapper. Why would it also have 2 dates of 15 Sept 1794 of 1st grant and 27 May 1816 2 nd grant? Thank you. Barbara
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Re: Probate query

Postby beacon » Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:45 pm

I assume the wrapper would be the sheet of paper which I have seen folded around the other documents, instead of an envelope, which shows the name of the person who made the will.


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Re: Probate query

Postby AdrianB38 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:12 pm

As for 2 dates, we'd only be guessing but one possibility is that the first executor died before completing the disposition of the estate. Obviously someone else has to take over but they have no right to do so until they get a grant of probate for themselves.

Alternatively, the original grant of probate might be insufficient for other reasons - just guessing but if the first grant was specific in what it referred to, further property might be discovered that fell outside the terms of the original grant. No, I've no idea how that happens either, but we can't know for certain at this stage, only speculate.

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Re: Probate query

Postby ianbee » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:02 pm

beacon wrote:I assume the wrapper would be the sheet of paper which I have seen folded around the other documents, instead of an envelope, which shows the name of the person who made the will.

The will is here. We start with the wrapper! Need to be logged in.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=126866

I'm sure Adrian will explain the rest.
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Re: Probate query

Postby Sylcec » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:46 pm

Regarding the 2 dates - death of a sole executor before administration of the estate is completed is, I agree, the most likely reason. However, my understanding is that PROBATE is only granted once; the second date would be a grant of Letters of Administration (with will attached). Maybe it was a large estate which included trusts for children until they came of age (21).
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Re: Probate query

Postby ianbee » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:09 pm

Takes about a minute to read that will!
Last edited by ianbee on Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Probate query

Postby AdrianB38 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:13 pm

Summarising...
Wrapper (it just wraps all the papers up).
Note that it says "Provd 15 Sept 1794" and "Admon w Will Granted 27 May 1816"

Note the word "Admon" - usually short for "Letters of Administration", granted when there is no will so someone needs to come forward as an executor and be granted the powers to administer the estate. However, there is also a phrase "Administration with will attached" typically used when there is a will but no executors for some reason. (I confess I didn't realise it said "Admon w Will" until later.)

Will
I'll let you read it but it appoints as executors, his wife Bettey and Thomas Orrell.

Grant of Probate
Probate was granted to Betty Gartside 6 Sept 1794.
"Power reserved for Thomas Orrell" - this means he did not take up the role of executor and therefore couldn't act as an executor until a further grant was made to him.

What happens now, before the next document, is that Betty Gartside dies as does Thomas Orrell, who never took up the executor role. The evidence for this is in the next document, the Bond.

Bond 27 May 1816
Joseph Gartside of Edgworth, also John Barnes and John ?Haworth? of the same place, promise to pay the Bishop of Chester the sum of £100 - except that they will be let off if Joseph Gartside (son and Administrator of estate of Betty Gartside) does his job properly as an administrator of his father's will. Thomas Orrell is also dead.

So basically, Joseph, Betty's son, has to take on the role of Administrator of his father's will as it seems some bits had not been completed by Betty (not sure what was left to do, but something clearly was outstanding). These pages grant him that role.

The next page refers to "Administration with will attached". As I said, straight "Administration" is the appointment of an executor when there is no will. There is a will here, but no executors left alive, so it's "Administration with will attached".

Last page is a declaration of value of the estate by Joseph.
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Re: Probate query

Postby AdrianB38 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:15 pm

Sylcec wrote:... the second date would be a grant of Letters of Administration (with will attached). ...

Quite so!
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Re: Probate query

Postby AdrianB38 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:17 pm

ianbee wrote:Takes about a minute to read that will!

I must be turning into a legal nerd - the will was the least interesting bit!

But note how much genealogy comes out of the "boring" legal bit!
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ReProbate query how to search for on Family Search

Postby Robin1 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:39 pm

Firstly can I thank everybody for taking their time to reply and provide so much valuble information.
The will may have been short but has confirmed family connections and given me lots of leads.

I was not aware there were probate records on Family search and could I ask another question in how best to search for the wills on Family Search?

Once again Thank you
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