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Sheffield Brickwall

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Sheffield Brickwall

Postby mikegall » Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:48 pm

I am hoping someone might be able to help me with a Sheffield related brick wall I have been unable to break through for many years. I am trying to find records for the birth of my Gt Grandfather, James Johnston and the marriage of my 2x Gt Grandparents. I believe these events happened around Sheffield but there is a distinct gap in the records I have been able to find.

Details: 2 x Gt Grandparents
Charles Johnston born bet 1827-29 Monaghan, Ireland
Harriet Thompson born abt 1823 Sheffield.

Details: Children
James Johnston abt 1852 Sheffield (no birth record found)
Phoebe Johnston abt 1855 Sheffield (no birth record found)
Mary E Johnston abt 1857 Masbrough (no birth record found)
Harriet Johnston abt 1858 Sheffield (no birth record found)
Charles Joseph Johnston 1860 Liverpool (birth record found)
Edward Johnston 1862 Liverpool (birth record found)
Amy M Johnston 1864 Liverpool (birth record found)

Timeline:

1851 Census – Charles seems to be working as a Tailor in Clitheroe
1851 – Presumed marriage of Charles and Harriet
1851 – My Gt Grandfather, James, is born in Sheffield
1861 Census – Family is living at 3 Brown Court, Liverpool. Charles listed as Tailor Journeyman
1871 Census – Family is in Widnes at 36 Lugsdale Road, Charles listed as Master Tailor

I cannot find birth or baptism records for the first 4 children born 1852-1858 nor can I find a marriage record for Charles or Harriet.

I have a public tree on Ancestry I can provide a link for with more info. I wasn't sure if I should do that or not in this post.

I have searched many times over the years on Ancestry, FMP, FamilySearch and the GRO indexes. I've order a few certificates which turned out to be wrong.

Any help on where to look next or words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks
Mike
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Re: Sheffield Brickwall

Postby Mick Loney » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:13 pm

Mike,
Have you considered they married AFTER the first few children were born? See if you can find birth records under their mothers name. The clue would be the absence of a mothers maiden name shown. Since these new indexes have been released, I’ve found quite a few missing births this way.

This new GRO index is quite picky, so unless the details you are searching for are an exact match, you won’t get a result. So if you enter Johnson, and entry is written Johnston, or Johnstone, you’re wasting your time. Also, you can’t search on just forenames, so use freebmd to do the general searching and then use the results from that as input to the GRO.
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Re: Sheffield Brickwall

Postby JMcK » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:58 pm

Are you sure the 1861 family at 3 brown Ct is the same family?
Charles says born Liverpool and is 54. So b about 1827 Whereas in 1851 he is born Monaghan and only 22
And then from 1871 he is about the right age for the 1827-29 birth
1861 is the aberration.

If you assume his accent was so thick the enumerator heard 34 as 54 and forgot about ireland altogether. then the other thought that occurs is that the first 4 children are not Johnston. But Harriet’s children by others. A previous husband (or not),
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Re: Sheffield Brickwall

Postby ianbee » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:31 pm

Duplicate posting of this query here
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.ph ... msg6405234
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Re: Sheffield Brickwall

Postby mikegall » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:21 am

@Mick, thanks for the reply. I hadn't previously considered that the first 4 children might not be Charles's, but that could make sense. I will do some searching using that assumption as you recommend. I did do some quick fuzzy searches looking for all H* Thompson's marrying C* Johnston/Johnstone/Johnson's at any time but came up blank on that as well.

@JMck, also, thank for replying. I was aware of discrepancies regarding Charles in the 1861 census and made the same assumptions you mention as the other family details match well. I recall in this census a daughter called Harriet appears for the first time in the family group. She was specifically mentioned by my late aunt and is also referred to in a poem I have written by my Gt Grandfather James i.e. her brother. Although these factors could of course be co-incidence.

I will look into the "not Charles's children" theory.
mikegall
 
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Re: Sheffield Brickwall

Postby mikegall » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:46 pm

I've also just double checked and I see that I have birth certiciates for the 2 eldest children which both give an address of 8 Court, Blake Street, Liverpool. I pretty certain that was the clincher and why I kept the 1861 census record assumming it was enumerator error.
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