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Abraham Withers, b. abt 1814 Oxfordshire

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Abraham Withers, b. abt 1814 Oxfordshire

Postby Sylcec » Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:52 pm

Abraham Withers was convicted late 1832 at Oxford Assizes, in company with others of theft of a bee hive and honey. They were transported for 7 years to Australia.

I am trying to find Abraham's date and place of birth of baptism (said to be native of Oxfordshire). There are several trees on Ancestry which give a date in Dec 1814 - however, all sources are other Ancestry trees!! My Ancestry sub is very basic - and doesn't allow me access to all bmds, so they may have it available, but I can't see it. Haven't been able to find on Familysearch or on Findmypast.
Your assistance will be appreciated. Sylvia
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Re: Abraham Withers, b. abt 1814 Oxfordshire

Postby AdrianB38 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:31 pm

Ancestry's "Oxfordshire, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1915"

Name: Abraham Wither <I think it reads "Withers" in the original. AB>
Baptism Date: 4 Dec 1814
Baptism Place: Stanton, St John, Oxfordshire, England
Parish as it Appears: Stanton St John
Father: William Wither
Mother: Elizabeth Wither


Also - abode "in this parish", "labourer"
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Re: Abraham Withers, b. abt 1814 Oxfordshire

Postby AdrianB38 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:35 pm

Add:
Isaac Withers 20 Jul 1817 Stanton, St John William,Elizabeth

This is the only other baptism within 10y of 1814 in Oxfordshire to these parents.
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Re: Abraham Withers, b. abt 1814 Oxfordshire

Postby Sylcec » Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:55 am

Many thanks Adrian.
Ahh - the Isaac is also interesting, as Abraham's son born in NSW 1853 is named Abraham Isaac (though he later chooses to be known as Albert Isaac W)

Am I pushing my luck to ask if there is a marriage for William and Elizabeth?
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Re: Abraham Withers, b. abt 1814 Oxfordshire

Postby AdrianB38 » Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:35 pm

Hmmm. A bit of a ride and a half this one!

When I checked the pre-1813 baptisms in Oxfordshire, England, Church of England Baptism, Marriages, and Burials, 1538-1812 (which, tut, tut, I hadn't looked at before, seeing as how I was looking only for Abraham around 1814), I got these:

(Search criteria 1790-1812)
Elizabeth Withers Baptism 16 Sep 1798 Stanton, St John William,Elizabeth
William Withers Baptism 8 Mar 1801 Stanton, St John William,Elizabeth
Thomas Withers Baptism 25 Jul 1802 Stanton, St John William,Elizabeth
Ann Withers Baptism 11 Mar 1804 Stanton, St John William,Elizabeth
Edward Mathers (actually Withers) Baptism 25 Jun 1808 Stanton, St John Wm,Elizabeth
Martha Wythers Baptism 20 Oct 1810 Stanton, St John Wm,Elizth
Henry Wythers Baptism 11 Aug 1812 Stanton, St John Wm,Elizth

Then adding in Oxfordshire, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1915
Abraham Wither 4 Dec 1814 Stanton, St John William,Elizabeth
Isaac Withers 20 Jul 1817 Stanton, St John William,Elizabeth
(my criteria looked up to 1830 here)

Just to confuse matters there is also this:
Ann Withers 26 Dec 1815 Chipping Norton with Over Norton Willm,Elizth
Surely not the same family?

In Oxfordshire, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1930, the only William Withers (allowing spelling variants) and Eliz* anything marriage before Abraham is

Oxford, St Michael, Oxfordshire, England
William Withers of the Parish of St Peters in the East in the City of Oxford, bachelor
and
Elizabeth Woodcock of this parish, spinster
2 Feb 1804 by Licence
Both sign. Witnesses are Wm Woodcock, Eliza Browne, Geo: Cecil (who has an enormous flourish to the "C" at the start of Cecil)

But this surely can't be the Stanton family??? (see below!)

To add in Oxfordshire, England, Church of England Deaths and Burials, 1813-1965 looking for Wither* in Stanton only.

Isaac Withers abt 1817 14 Sep 1817 Stanton, St John
William Withers abt 1769 17 Feb 1847 Stanton, St John
Elizabeth Withers abt 1774 28 Feb 1847 Stanton, St John
William Withers abt 1801 4 Apr 1860 Stanton, St John
Henry Edward Kendall Withers abt 1867 12 Feb 1868 Stanton, St John
Mary Ann Withers abt 1872 24 Jul 1872 Stanton, St John

In the end I found the marriage in Oxfordshire, England, Church of England Baptism, Marriages, and Burials, 1538-1812. Now, I'm sure that as an expert in all this ;) , you knew that the way Ancestry collect stuff up, this series (the up to 1812 books) covers baptisms and burials up to 1812 and marriages only up to 1754, with marriages after that date being in Oxfordshire, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1930. Well, not sure what happened here but their 1797 marriage is in the book up to 1812. That's a plain paper(?) book and is not the legal Hardwick pre-printed format. Whether Stanton lost the proper book so used the old plain paper book, or the plain paper book was just for rough notes and this one never made it into the full book I have no idea but this is it (albeit summarised):

Marriage Place: Stanton, St John, Oxfordshire, England
Banns between William Withers, batchelor, and Elizabeth Lock, spinster, both of this parish, published Dec 3 / 10 / 17 of 1797.
Married 18 Dec 1797. William makes his mark. Elizabeth signs.
Witnesses: Sam'l Matthew(?) Tomkins and Thos Coghill

Phew!
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Re: Abraham Withers, b. abt 1814 Oxfordshire

Postby Sylcec » Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:06 pm

Phew indeed! This is fantastic comprehensive info.

Interesting to see that William and Elizabeth died Feb 1847.
I did try browsing the census - but Ancestry only seemed to have Stanton Harcourt (not St John) for 1841, and by 1851 the only Wither(s) I found in the parish was Edward & family who had not previously been known.

(As an aside, I now have serious health problems and living with my daughter in rural NSW - so although I still have access to my subs, am no longer in a position to get out to my gen.soc, libraries etc for practical research. So - will be posting more queries on the current research project! :D )
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Re: Abraham Withers, b. abt 1814 Oxfordshire

Postby ianbee » Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:10 am

This could be them in 1841, as Whithers
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7Q6-QR3

So sorry about your health problems, Sylvia. I'm sure all of us on here on WDYTYA Forum wish you well.
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Re: Abraham Withers, b. abt 1814 Oxfordshire

Postby Sylcec » Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:47 pm

Thanks Ian - that's great. Have found the 1841 census entry now on FMP.
When Abraham (the convict transportee) dies in 1898 Balmain (Sydney suburb) his parents are named as William and Elizabeth - so know that we have the right people.
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