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How do i know ?

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How do i know ?

Postby TheViking » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:08 am

Hi members.

As you know I am pretty new to family research and at the moment I am finding it hard to trace an ancestor of mine. His name was George Patrick Conway he was born in 1883 from a 1911 census it says tullamore but I can not find anything regarding his birth or his parents. I know he must have relocated to Barnsley south Yorkshire and lived in Royston then shafton then thurnscoe where he sadly took his own life. I have a couple of questions members could possibly help me with.

They are results of a George Conway in Ireland but how do I know this is my George they have the same year of birth but are in different parts of Ireland ?

When searching the prison records there is also a George Conway he was in Australia and I have a mug shot and also a prison number but again how do I know this is George how do I find evidence that this face is 100% George. ? I am constantly sorting I am adding to looking at a picture that isn't the George I am looking for.

From a news paper clipping have found of his death he took his own life due to a head injury in the war now this must have been ww1 but gain they are Georges coming up but how do I know this is my George ?

In genealogy would you recommend when researching a family member do I start at the death and work back ? Or start at the birth and work forward ?

I would also like to know how I would trace his birth certificate from Ireland if I can not find any other documents. And again how do I know I am ordering the right certificate for my George if I don't know his parents. ?

Now I would like to apologise in advance as I do have alot questions I am really getting frustrated and starting to think the fee I pay find my past is a waist of time. Please help. Thank you
TheViking
 
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Re: How do i know ?

Postby ianbee » Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:00 pm

TheViking wrote:In genealogy would you recommend when researching a family member do I start at the death and work back ? Or start at the birth and work forward ?

Hi, yes, work backwards.
You haven't got a birth yet. You need George's marriage certificate, for the name and occupation of his father.
March 1910 Barnsley 9c 345
Bootland, Elizabeth
Conway, George Patrick

The banns seem to be on ancestry, but not the marriage. At Monk Bretton.
Attachments
Conway - Bootland.JPG
Conway - Bootland.JPG (36.53 KiB) Viewed 1469 times
ianbee
 
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Re: How do i know ?

Postby ianbee » Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:20 pm

Yes, no George Conway birth registration in Tullamore at the approximate time.
Next best is a Patrick
born 29 August 1882, in the Union Workhouse, Tullamore
father Patrick Conway, of Chapel Lane, Tullamore, a Shoemaker
mother Bridget, formerly Maguire

I don't think there is a George Patrick born circa 1883 anywhere.
Really you are going to need to get hold of that marriage record.
Ian
ianbee
 
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Re: How do i know ?

Postby ianbee » Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:29 pm

There's a George Conway in Thurnscoe in 1901. Piece 4407 folio 82 page 33
Age 20, Coal Miner, born Ireland.
Boarding with Frederick Smith, 30, Coal Miner, born Essex Thaxted, and his wife Alice Smith, 26.
Alice Smith was also from Ireland.

Just a possibility, Smith is a common name!
Dec 1899, Doncaster 9c 1405
Conway, Alice
Smith Frederick

Yorkshire BMD says Doncaster Register Office or Registrar Attended

Of course we can't be totally sure that it is your George in 1901, but the location is good.
Ian
ianbee
 
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Re: How do i know ?

Postby ianbee » Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:42 pm

Found the Smiths in 1911!
8 Top Street, Hemsworth, Yorkshire
Frederick Smith Head 43 Married Coal Miner (Hewer), born Thaxted Essex
Alice Smith Wife 37, Married 11 years, children 5-4-1, born Kings County Tullamore Ireland
Amy Smith Daughter 9
Frederick Smith Son 8
John A Smith Son 6
Alice Conway Daughter 2


John A Smith, 6, was born Cudworth.
Possible birth reg
June 1905 Barnsley 9c 203
Smith, John Arthur
mother Conway

So, was Alice Conway/Smith a sister, or some other relation, of your George Patrick?
ianbee
 
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Re: How do i know ?

Postby ianbee » Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:59 pm

Well, there is a birth possibility for Alice
Ireland Births and Baptisms
Name: Alice
Gender: Female
Place: 755, Tullamore, Kings, Ire
Birth Date: 13 Feb 1874
Birthplace: Tullamore, Kings, Ire
Father's Name: John Conway
Mother's Name: Bridget Mguire

We can see the image on
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ ... search.jsp

Born at 13 Church St, Tullamore
Father John a Shoemaker
Bridget's maiden name is spelt Maguire. She was the informant.

So very similar to the Patrick birth record in 1882, with the exception that his father was named as Patrick, not John. The "Occupier" of the Workhouse was the informant on his one.
Interesting!
Ian
ianbee
 
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Re: How do i know ?

Postby AdrianB38 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:32 pm

Getting a bit speculative but this (from Ancestry) looks interesting:
Name: Bridget Maguire
Date of Registration: 1868
Registration district: Tullamore, Ireland
Volume: 13
Page Number: 521
FHL Film Number: 101250
Records on Page:
Name
Lucy Mooney
Michl King
Patr Lawlor
James Berry
John Conway
Agnes Mary Foyle
Ellen Horan
Bridget Maguire


There are only two Bridget Maguire marriages in Tullamore SRD before the children's births. That would suggest (but not prove) that John Conway and Bridget Maguire are the couple who married - not Patrick and Bridget (who might be a real couple but married elsewhere). Unfortunatley, irishgenealogy.ie doesn't have the images that far back and Ancestry (like FreeBMD) only indexes the full set of names on the pages - not the couples. This is the only one where a Conway is on the same page as Bridget but it doesn't prove that those 2 married.
Adrian
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Re: How do i know ?

Postby AdrianB38 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:43 pm

ianbee wrote:... So very similar to the Patrick birth record in 1882, with the exception that his father was named as Patrick, not John. The "Occupier" of the Workhouse was the informant on his one.
Interesting! ...


One lesson to bear in mind here - records can lie. You really have to start out with the idea that they are true, but at some point, when things don't match that should match, you need to entertain the possibility that either through an honest mistake / incompetence / downright lie from the people concerned, the records may be wrong.

You must never assume they are wrong simply to prove that your first idea was right. Rather, you must find bits that don't match that should match, work out one possible error, and see whether everything then matches.

In the case of the 1882 birth above, the possible error is that Patrick has got written down twice - once for the child and a second time for the father. That's a typical error. What we don't yet have is any indication that this is a mismatch. That would come if the irishgenealogy site has no Patrick Conway / Bridget Maguire marriages in that time-scale.... (But how many ways can you spell Bridget / Brigid / etc? And Maguire / McGuire? I don't know how good that site is at handling them.)
Adrian
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Re: How do i know ?

Postby ianbee » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:52 pm

It's just so frustrating that the Monk Bretton marriage is not on ancestry! To answer the question, was George's father John, or Patrick, or someone else!

Looking at deaths in Tullamore
A John Conway, married, shoemaker, died 13 July 1892 in the Union Workhouse.
Age 52

From a non exhaustive search, I haven't found a death of shoe making Patrick there, but that doesn't mean a great deal.
The only Bridget or similar in Tullamore in 1901 seems to be a 51 year widow, Brigid Conway, working as a servant.
In fact not many Conways there at all, they may have moved on.
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Re: How do i know ?

Postby TheViking » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:05 pm

Hi i would like to thank you all for the quick replys you guys are amazing, i did come across a document on the irish site but didnt think they was relation (i know it isnt proven yet)

i did also come across a patrick in ireland on find my past baptism in the county stated but again i didnt think anything, i have now learnt what someone mentioned in here that sometimes they would not alsways use there first name who knows why ? maybe it was a a way of moving on from a bad past or just a genreal mistake,

I have now orderd the marrige certificate for george and his wife it shouldnt be too long as it arrives and i will update in due course,i also didnt know you could find the farther and there occupation which has surprised me so thank you for that, if it is true that those other people are siblings of george that would mean he didnt move to yorkshire on his own but infact it was a family move which would be brillaint news.
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