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John Henry Fryer 1869 - ?

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John Henry Fryer 1869 - ?

Postby pastisyourself » Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:01 pm

I am trying to find a date and place of death for a John Henry Fryer, who was married to an Annie Woodcock and lived in Stamford. He was a groom who worked for Lord Rosslyn and who traveled with him to racing events round the country. John spent some time in Rauceby Asylum. He was there when the 1911 census took place, but was released in 1912. This was following a suicide attempt in 1909. Once released from the asylum he didn't return home. Family rumour suggest that he might have gone to South America with Lord Rosslyn, and may have been involved with illegal gambling. Lord Rosslyn had horse racing interests. The re is a possible death that may match in Kingston upon Hull, but I think that death is of another John Henry Fryer. Thanks for any help you can give.


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Re: John Henry Fryer 1869 - ?

Postby pastisyourself » Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:56 am

I have tried to solve this problem myself by looking at some details of ships sailing abroad but nothing seems to match. A real brick wall so far!


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Re: John Henry Fryer 1869 - ?

Postby sdup26 » Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:23 am

You say that when John Henry was released from the asylum, he didn't return home. I see that Osborn names his father as next of kin when he enlisted in 1912, but could JH have been re-admitted after that? The Electoral Register for St Paul's Street, Stamford 1922, shows Annie living alone. In 1928, she's with son Charles. So did John Henry die (or leave the family, either by migrating, or becoming resident in the asylum) between about 1912-1922? Do you have the marriage certificates of any of the Fryer children? If so, do they say whether their father was deceased or not? While this isn't always reliable, it may help.
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Re: John Henry Fryer 1869 - ?

Postby pastisyourself » Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:15 pm

Thank you for your excellent ideas. You remind me that it is always excellent to look sideways. I will also look at the army records for his son John William as he enlisted in 1915. In wonder if John Henry went back in the asylum and died there. Family history often gets reinterpreted to give a gloss to stories. Going away to South America sounds better than being in an asylum. Your help is much appreciated.


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Re: John Henry Fryer 1869 - ?

Postby sdup26 » Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:47 pm

Just a quick point - the John Henry Fryer who died in Hull in 1921 was born in 1847. He's on the Hull Electoral roll in 1911, when your JH was in Rauceby.
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Re: John Henry Fryer 1869 - ?

Postby pastisyourself » Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:42 pm

I had discounted the Hull John Henry as being unlikely, simply because of distance and that it was most likely to be the local John Henry who had died. I didn't cross check further so thank you. I did check John William Fryers war records - he joined 1915, but no Next of kin is listed. I also checked for deaths of Fryers in the area to see if one had slipped through, but no luck. I spotted a couple of John Henry's listed as travelling abroad on ships 1913, and 1914 but these don't match with his job. He was a groom.
Thanks again!


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Re: John Henry Fryer 1869 - ?

Postby sdup26 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:49 pm

I'm afraid I haven't found any travel/migration records for John Henry. As you know, Lord Rosslyn had a stud at Burghley Park, Stamford, which would have had several grooms, and most probably, a stud manager to advise him. Newspaper reports of the time tell of his Lordship travelling to New York where he had business interests, but no mention of going abroad to buy horses. The searches turned up the story of Lord R's mother being declared bankrupt, and Lord R trying to buy family items the creditors wanted to claim, but whether any of that impacted on the stud or caused John Henry to become concerned for his job, would just be conjecture.
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Re: John Henry Fryer 1869 - ?

Postby ianbee » Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:15 pm

Best match in the death indexes would be
June 1928 Warwick 6d 764
Fryer, John Henry
age 59

No one resembling that person there in 1911. The other candidate for that death might be the second John Henry Fryer born in 1869, up in Hartlepool. Son of Thomas and Frances. He married Dorothy Stephenson.
That one was a joiner in 1901, and went to America circa 1903. Back home, his wife Dorothy was in trouble with the law in 1907.
John H. appears to be in New York in 1910, a carpenter, and possibly died there in 1940 (without middle initial/name)
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WRB-746

If so, aside from your man, that leaves
John Henry Fryer, registered Sep 1868, Chorlton
But did he die two years later in Bury district, age 2?

and, a bit younger
John Henry Fryer, reg June 1867, Birmingham.
Seems to be in Handsworth in 1911, married to Florence.
Perhaps a likely death for him might be March 1934, Wolverhampton, age 66

After 1869, the next John Henry Fryer birth in the indexes is not until 1873, with a John Harry same year.
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Re: John Henry Fryer 1869 - ?

Postby pastisyourself » Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:10 am

Thank you both for your extra research and information. I will certainly look at the death in 1928 as being the most likely if he was registered under his full name.


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Re: John Henry Fryer 1869 - ?

Postby pastisyourself » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:04 pm

Mystery solved. John Henry Fryer died on 17th June 1928. He has been a resident of Hatton Mental Hospital in Warwickshire. Right age and job as non domestic groom. Fits neatly - now need to find out where he was between 1912 - 1928. Residence given as 31 Regent Street Leamington.


Thanks again to everyone who has helped.


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