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Harold E. Oliver or Howard Oliver (East Sussex)?

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Harold E. Oliver or Howard Oliver (East Sussex)?

Postby DianaCanada » Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:41 pm

Harold Ernest Oliver was born Sep Q 1897 in Eastbourne, Sussex, the son of John Oliver and Ruth Funnell. I do have information back a few generations.
I think I have found Harold on the 1939 Register, he is indexed as Harold G. Oliver, birth date 21 Jul 1897. I think the G could easily be an E. Harold is a Parks Gardener. He is living in Croydon, Surrey, street name does not seem to be there, house #48.
Harold is (probably) married to Millie B., b. 19 Aug 1895 and also in the household, Joyce B. Oliver, b. 10 Aug 1928.
I found a Joyce B. Oliver registered in the Dec Q of 1928, mother Reed, in the Lewes district.
I found a marriage for Millie B. Reed, Lewes district, Sep 1926 to HOWARD Oliver. I found a Howard Oliver birth registration in Lewes district, Dec 1926, mother maiden name REED.
I found a Millie B. Reed living in Hamsey, Sussex (which is in the Lewes district) age 6, daughter of Henry and Fanny Reed, parents were local to Sussex but some children born elsewhere, including Millie b. in Walton-on-Thames, Surrey. I cannot find her birth registration, but I don’t know what registration district W-on-T is in, so did not check for Reeds born there in 1895.
I found a possible death for Harold in Bromley district (Harold E. Oliver) age 65, in Jan 1963. I can’t find a death or remarriage for Millie. I found two marriages for Joyce. I cannot find Howard born in 1926.
My real issue if this is my Harold, and it seems to be, why the registration for marriage under HOWARD (no middle initial); I thought it might have been a clerical error, but then there appears to be a son Howard E. born a few months later.
I found a newspaper article about Harold stealing a small amount of cash in 1928, he was working as a gardener then, as he was in 1939. It mentioned too that he was married, though living apart from his wife.
Also, Harold does not appear in his father’s death notice in 1948. At first I thought he had died, but now I think perhaps the family cut him off after he got in trouble in 1928 (my understanding is that he received probation, and did not serve a jail sentence).
Just wondering if there is any other way I can prove this is the same man, without having to purchase the marriage certificate. Any ideas appreciated!
DianaCanada
 
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Re: Harold E. Oliver or Howard Oliver (East Sussex)?

Postby ianbee » Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:43 pm

There's this death possibility
June 1969 Lewes 5h 1263
Olliver, Millie Blanche
d-o-b 19 Aug 1894

No luck with her birth yet
Ian
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Re: Harold E. Oliver or Howard Oliver (East Sussex)?

Postby ianbee » Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:51 pm

Chertsey was the district for Walton on Thames
Mark Reed (age 8, born Walton, in 1901) was registered there in March 1893, mother Miller
So, perhaps
Sep 1895 Chertsey 2a 42
Reed, Nellie Blanche
mother Miller
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Re: Harold E. Oliver or Howard Oliver (East Sussex)?

Postby ianbee » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:28 pm

You could also have a look on the Surrey Electoral Registers, 1832-1962, on ancestry
i.e. 1931 and 1932
Harold Ernest Oliver
Millie Blanche Oliver

Baptism of Milly Blanche Reed at St Peter Hersham, parents Henry and Fanny
Attachments
Eastern.JPG
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Re: Harold E. Oliver or Howard Oliver (East Sussex)?

Postby DianaCanada » Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:33 pm

Ian, thank you for all your help!
The "Blanche" name fits with their daughter Joyce whose middle name was also Blanche.
The Howard aspect of all this is a bit of a mystery. The son, assuming he is theirs, b. 1926, had done a disappearing act. He is too young for the army, of course, in 1939.
You have found Millie (Nellie)'s baptism in Walton-on-Thames, she did have a brother Mark living later in Hamsey, Sussex.
There is a lot here tying "my" Harold to the mysterious Howard - age, place, occupation, and the lack of other Howard Olivers, etc.
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Re: Harold E. Oliver or Howard Oliver (East Sussex)?

Postby ianbee » Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:54 pm

Hi
Possible death for Howard E (birth registered Dec qtr 1926)
May 2002 Hitchin & Stevenage 5341A 14A
Howard Ernest Oliver
d-o-b 26 Sep 1926

Possible marriage in Croydon in 1955?
If so, did his wife die in 2003?
Ian
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Re: Harold E. Oliver or Howard Oliver (East Sussex)?

Postby ianbee » Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:59 pm

ianbee wrote:Possible marriage in Croydon in 1955?
If so, did his wife die in 2003?

Monumental Inscriptions, Weston Road Cemetery, Stevenage, Hertfordshire
http://jefferyknaggs.com/WestonRd.html

See "A 989"
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Re: Harold E. Oliver or Howard Oliver (East Sussex)?

Postby DianaCanada » Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:30 am

ianbee wrote:
ianbee wrote:Possible marriage in Croydon in 1955?
If so, did his wife die in 2003?

Monumental Inscriptions, Weston Road Cemetery, Stevenage, Hertfordshire
http://jefferyknaggs.com/WestonRd.html

See "A 989"


Thanks again Ian, very helpful!
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Re: Harold E. Oliver or Howard Oliver (East Sussex)?

Postby DianaCanada » Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:54 pm

This is has become a Canterbury Tale with an Oliver Twist!

I have received information (thank you, Christine) that my Harold Ernest Oliver almost certainly committed bigamy and used the name "Howard" for his second (bigamous) marriage. His first marriage was to Hilda Alberta Holder in Canterbury in 1917 - his father was recorded as Joseph Oliver rather than John, but everything else matches, including a newspaper account that discussed his first marriage and his second illegal marriage which took place in the Register Office in Lewes. So "Howard" turns up in the 1939 Register under his correct name, Harold E. Oliver with his second wife whom he never legally married, Millie Blanche Reed.
Hilda obtained a divorce (National Archives has a listing but the information is only available in person), filed in 1931. She later remarried. I have found no later marriage for Harold and Millie so their marriage remained common law.

Harold married Hilda during WWI, went overseas, and they rarely saw each other after that. She must have got wind of his second marriage, and the case went to court in 1930. Harold is quoted as referring to it as a "khaki wedding" and that Hilda only married him to get the widow's pension if he died as a soldier. Of course, this is only Harold's version of events!

Harold's signature on the marriage to Hilda Holder is quite distinctive so I am hoping to find another document with his signature. I have his son Howard (son of Millie) birth certificate on order, but not holding my breath that Harold is the informant.

I mentioned earlier that Harold was not mentioned in his father's obituary (or the grandchildren). I think I know why now!
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Re: Harold E. Oliver or Howard Oliver (East Sussex)?

Postby AntonyM » Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:31 am

The best option to get the full story will be that divorce file - it will contain her "petition" which will be in the form of a legal statement, saying where/when they married, where they have lived together since, details of any children they had, and the grounds on which she is seeking a divorce - so it will probably have details of him deserting her, "marrying" again and where he has been living since (and who with) etc. As a bonus it will normally have copies of the relevant marriage certificates.

It is possible that there may be a response from him, but if uncontested, there probably won't be.

A researcher will copy it for you, or TNA will do it .... shouldn't cost that much.

GRO only has copies of documents, not the originals. So on the birth certificate you have ordered, if he was the sole informant, and he can only be so if he claims to be married to the mother, it will show how he signed his name (e.g. using initials or in full etc.) but not in his handwriting.

You would need to speak to the local registration office to get a copy of his signature.

(Common law marriage is not something which exists in English law .... you are legally married or you are not).
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