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Harold E. Oliver or Howard Oliver (East Sussex)?

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Re: Harold E. Oliver or Howard Oliver (East Sussex)?

Postby DianaCanada » Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:51 am

AntonyM wrote:The best option to get the full story will be that divorce file - it will contain her "petition" which will be in the form of a legal statement, saying where/when they married, where they have lived together since, details of any children they had, and the grounds on which she is seeking a divorce - so it will probably have details of him deserting her, "marrying" again and where he has been living since (and who with) etc. As a bonus it will normally have copies of the relevant marriage certificates.

It is possible that there may be a response from him, but if uncontested, there probably won't be.

A researcher will copy it for you, or TNA will do it .... shouldn't cost that much.

GRO only has copies of documents, not the originals. So on the birth certificate you have ordered, if he was the sole informant, and he can only be so if he claims to be married to the mother, it will show how he signed his name (e.g. using initials or in full etc.) but not in his handwriting.

You would need to speak to the local registration office to get a copy of his signature.

(Common law marriage is not something which exists in English law .... you are legally married or you are not).


Thank you for the information, Antony, very interesting! Surprised common law is not English per se, I had assumed we inherited that from English law here in Canada. It does exist here as a legal marital status - am not sure how far reaching it is though.
I do have another distant relative who divorced his wife when he returned home from WWI - found she had had a baby when he was away. That file would be interesting to see.
Harold had not been taken to court when his two children with Millie were born so I think he might have just claimed they were married (kids were born in the same district that he and Millie were married in, in fact it looks like their son came along only a few months after the bigamous second marriage, so the registrar probably would have thought everything was legit).
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Re: Harold E. Oliver or Howard Oliver (East Sussex)?

Postby AdrianB38 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:42 pm

DianaCanada wrote:... Surprised common law is not English per se, I had assumed we inherited that from English law here in Canada. ....


Given that Common Law comes from the law of England, yes, you'd expect Common Law Marriage to be part of English Law. However, I asked Professor Rebecca Probert about this at a WDYTYA? show and no, it's never been part of English Law. Which then made me ask... "So where did the concept come from?" Her belief was that it came from the USA where several judges interpreted the situation to say that Common Law Marriage was a valid concept under the Common Law. That's what Common Law consists of - what's gone before plus judge-made case-law (interpretation) (probably all the wrong phrases - my fault).

So that's why some states in the USA have Common Law marriages as a legitimate status - and others don't, and England never has. The phrase has seeped into consciousness in the UK and potentially leads people to believe that it has meaning in the UK. It doesn't.
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Re: Harold E. Oliver or Howard Oliver (East Sussex)?

Postby DianaCanada » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:59 am

Adrian, I have had a look around about common law marriage in Canada - it actually comes under provincial jurisdiction. In Ontario, where I live, it is NOT recognized as a legal marriage, but certain rights are given to common law partners (for example, people who have lived together for a certain number of years can purchase health insurance to cover services outside our universal system, e.g. dental, physio, etc.) but they do not have the full rights of legally married couples (getting financial support from their partner once the relationship is over), although the children of said couples are generally treated the same way as children from marriages (for child support, etc.).
So I was wrong, in a sense. In English common law, and most of Canadian "common law", there are legal marriages and that is it. What we refer to as a common law relationship is not a legal term but a colloquial term. That being said, most people just refer to themselves as "living together".
Quebec, which operates under Napoleonic law, extends no rights at all to couples living together, despite the high number of said couples in that province.
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Re: Harold E. Oliver or Howard Oliver (East Sussex)?

Postby AdrianB38 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:26 pm

Complicated!

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Re: Harold E. Oliver or Howard Oliver (East Sussex)?

Postby DianaCanada » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:28 pm

DianaCanada wrote:
ianbee wrote:
ianbee wrote:Possible marriage in Croydon in 1955?
If so, did his wife die in 2003?

Monumental Inscriptions, Weston Road Cemetery, Stevenage, Hertfordshire
http://jefferyknaggs.com/WestonRd.html

See "A 989"


Thanks again Ian, very helpful!


I received Howard's birth certificate today:
Howard Ernest, b. 26 Sep 1926, Friendly Hall, Cooksbridge, Hamsey, son of Millie Blanche Oliver, formerly Reed and Howard Oliver, electrical fitter and repairer, informant was mother M.B. Oliver of Friendly Hall, Cooksbridge near Lewes.

Looks like he is the same man buried in Weston Road Cemetery. I found a marriage to a Joan Miller in Croydon and three Oliver/Miller children born within a few years.
Still can't find him in 1939 register, but maybe he is just not there.
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Re: Harold E. Oliver or Howard Oliver (East Sussex)?

Postby StefR99 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:21 pm

Still can't find him in 1939 register, but maybe he is just not there.[/quote]

He could be 'hiding' under a redacted black line. My mother died in 1979 but what turned out to be her entry in the 1939 Register was redacted. I sent a copy of her death certificate to get it 'opened'. Keep looking!

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Re: Harold E. Oliver or Howard Oliver (East Sussex)?

Postby DianaCanada » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:33 am

StefR99 wrote:Still can't find him in 1939 register, but maybe he is just not there.


He could be 'hiding' under a redacted black line. My mother died in 1979 but what turned out to be her entry in the 1939 Register was redacted. I sent a copy of her death certificate to get it 'opened'. Keep looking!

Thank you for the encouraging words. He might have been with one of his many Reed relatives and was redacted.
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