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manning/long

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manning/long

Postby chris manning » Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:16 pm

My grandmother Violet Alice Manning had three illegitimate children before marrying and having several more! She lived in the village of Wiggenhall St Peters in Norfolk.
The first child was christened Sybil Irene Long in 1915; the second, my father, Hubert James Long in 1916 and the third Eric W Manning. Family rumours suggest a "Mr Long" was the father of the first two, but he denied being responsible for the third. Sybil and Hubert adopted the surname Manning,
but my paternal grandfather is almost certainly "Mr Long"
My parents divorced when I was young, so I never knew my father.
I have never been able to find my father's death certificate , it is thought he died in 1973, and I don't know how to find "Mr Long"
Any suggestions?
Chris Manning
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Re: manning/long

Postby carobradford » Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:06 pm

chris manning wrote:The first child was christened Sybil Irene Long in 1915; the second, my father, Hubert James Long in 1916 and the third Eric W Manning.


This may sound picky, but no child is given a surname as part of the baptism service. Sybil and Hubert were registered as MANNING, with mmn MANNING but have L (presumably for LONG) as the initial of their third forename. Do the register entries for Sybil and Hubert give LONG as a third Christian name and/or the surname of the putative father in the column for parents' names?
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Re: manning/long

Postby AntonyM » Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:10 pm

carobradford wrote:This may sound picky, but no child is given a surname as part of the baptism service.


and no child is given a surname in a birth register either (until 1969)
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Re: manning/long

Postby JMcK » Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:17 am

I have assumed there are two questions here, 1. What happened to your father and 2. Who was Mr LONG.

Have you done a cluster search in the 1911 census for likely LONG candidates? I have a similar situation in my family that albeit was in a village so easier to track, but the person who was identified as the father suddenly moved to a nearby village

1939 register for both.

Is the 1973 death you have heard of supposed to be in England? If so there is a Herbert not Hubert LONG in St Albans

This sounds like the perfect case for DNA to me,

Did your father have a profession that means he had to be on a register of some sort?
Have you looked at electoral rolls following your parents divorce?
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Re: manning/long

Postby ciderdrinker » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:41 am

Hello
On the 1939 index your father is living with his grandparents James and Elizabeth Manning.I can find no trace of Sybil and Violet but it looks like Eric Manning has already signed yup.
In Wriggenhall where Violet is living in 1911 there are several Mr Longs

Arthur Long born 1897 a farm labourer born Sutton Bridge Lincolnshire step son of Daniel Banham and his wife Maria.(father was William Long born 1864 Terrington who presumably had died).
His brother George William Long born 1884,already married.
and Charles Harpley Long born 1.10.1879 carpenter on farm married to Grace nee Print born 1872.

They would be the likely candidates.
Obviously they would have needed to be around during the War so where were they 1914 to 1918?
There are family trees for all of them on Ancestry ,perhaps their owners would know more.
Charles Harpley Long doesn't seem to have had children with either of his 2 wives but there is a photo of him.

ps if you live locally you could try and find the school records of your father and his brother and sister.They usually include the name of their parents.Hopefully the full name of Mr Long.

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Re: manning/long

Postby woodchal » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:30 am

You say they adopted the name Manning.

This is not accurate - their name was always Manning - because they were illegitimate eg Sybil Irene Long Manning.

Long was just a middle name - however that doesn't mean to say that it is not a indicator of the father. I have had examples of just that situation.
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Re: manning/long

Postby ianbee » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:46 pm

This one has been doing the rounds for years

chris manning wrote:it is thought he died in 1973

There doesn't seem to be any evidence for this
Hubert James Manning and his wife Gladys Mary Manning of 27 Craster Avenue, Forrest Hall, Newcastle upon Tyne, both died in the Summerland fire on the Isle of Man, 2 August 1973.
Although the same age as the Hubert James from Norfolk, it is far more likely that he was the chap born in Newcastle.
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Re: manning/long

Postby chris manning » Fri May 11, 2018 11:32 am

Firstly, thanks for all the replies to my post of Oct 2017.I have been otherwise engaged!
Accept comments about registration and names.
I have a bit more info now.
My father's birth certificate says he was born 9 August 1916 in Wiggenhall St Peters district of Downham. His name is Hubert James Long - no father's surname given, registered 6 September 1916. His sister was also names Sybil Irene Long.
Hubert his sister Sybil and brother Eric were brought up by his grandparents James and Elizabeth Manning. Hubert went to Wiggenhall St Germans school in 1921 and James was listed as his Guardian.
My Grandma Violet married George William Rose in 1922 and went on to have several children with him. In 1925 Hubert and Eric went to live with their birth mother and went to school in North Wootton, Sybil stayed with her grandparents until she left school age 13 to go into service in Kent.
Hubert was originally listed as Hubert James Rose, but the school record was later changed to Hubert James Manning.
Yes Hubert was living with his grandparents in 1939 as a general labourer. He married my mum, Kathleen Hood in 1940 and shortly afterwards went into the army. I do have his army records and medals, but after he came home my parents divorced in 1950 and mum destroyed all photos and documents relating to him. I don't have evidence of the divorce and don't know where to look. I suspect it would have been in court either in King's Lynn or Norwich.
One of the Rose children told my mum that Hubert had died in 1973. The nearest fit I could find was the death certificate for a Herbert Manning who died in St Luke's Hospital, Guildford 22 February 1973 ( we know Hubert worked on road building in the south of England) This man's date of birth was given as 9 August 1910 - so were their two errors - Herbert instead of Hubert and 1910 instead of 1916?
I have ruled out any link to Hubert James Manning from Newcastle who died in the fire on the Isle of Man.
That leaves "Mr Long" - cider drinker - I have been in touch with a relative of Charles Harply Long who was in the right place and time, he married twice as you say but had no children by either wife. His relative thought it highly unlikely he would have been the father.
Arthur and George Long as you described were also in the right place and time, but I have nothing to link them.
Thanks once again to you all
Chris Manning
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Re: manning/long

Postby DianaCanada » Tue May 15, 2018 2:28 pm

You may have checked this already...but there are 3 Herbert Longs registered in the Sep Q 1910 (none for the Jun Q) on FreeBMD. If you could trace these three men (all have a middle initial) you could at least find out if they could be eliminated or verified as the one you found dying in Guildford. Might not help a lot but sometimes it does!
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