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John Worrell - 24th Regiment (c1785)

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John Worrell - 24th Regiment (c1785)

Postby MoVidger » Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:16 pm

My 4 x great-grandfather John Worrell/Worrall served with the 24th Regiment. I am struggling to find any details for him, including military service records. So he's a mystery man, at present, as is his wife Hannah/Helen (nee Hume).

The only record I have for him is his marriage record on Scotland's People:

01 Feb 1785 (Edinburgh Castle)
John Worrel (24th Regiment of Foot)
Hannah Hume (spouse's father: John Hume of Cupar)

There are FMP military service records for two John Worrell's who served with the 24th - both of which I've eliminated:

John Worrall - born 1779 in Youghall, Cork, Ireland (he's too young)
John Werrell - born 1747 in Hayfield, Derbyshire (he didn't join the 24th until June 1787)

Their son John Worrall died in 1860 in Dundee, aged 74. His death record states his father was John Worrall - gamekeeper (deceased) and mother was Helen Hume (deceased). John Jr appears in the 1841 and 1851 census for Dundee. His birthplace in the latter census looks to be Lanarkshire ??

There is a 1790 baptism record on Family Search for a John Worral in Chadderton, Lancashire. Parents are John Worral and Hanh. However, without a military service record for John Sr, it'll be difficult to prove this baptism relates to my family.

If anyone can lend any assistance with finding any 24th Regiment military records for John Sr, I'd be very grateful.
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Re: John Worrell - 24th Regiment (c1785)

Postby AdrianB38 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:03 pm

What have you looked at?

The online service records on FindMyPast apply only to someone discharged to a pension. The Muster Books and Pay Lists (an MB&PL is a single document) at Kew will include him. The problem is that they contain very little genealogical data about someone or even enough to identify someone, but by working back and forth, you (or someone) should be able to see when he joined the unit and when he left.

It is said that these books may contain information about births and marriages - I suspect that may apply later than your period but this can't be known until the books are checked.

What I don't know is if all MB&PLs survive.

There may be other documents such as Description Books (these are on Ancestry but only for units that served in Canada) and Discharge Books, for instance. Coverage for these seems slimmer than MB& PLs - when I researched a chap who died in 1814, there was no surviving Description Book and the Discharge Books omitted his birthplace....

Basically, Kew appears to be the only hope if nothing is online.

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Re: John Worrell - 24th Regiment (c1785)

Postby MoVidger » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:12 pm

Adrian - thank you for the info. So far I have checked FMP, Ancestry, and TNA (but I'm not an expert with searching their records, particularly military).

I've tried to find a circa 1786-ish baptism record on Scotland's People for John Jr, hoping it would provide a clue or two regarding his father (and if he was still enlisted). But no luck so far, and I've tried every surname variance relating to Worrell/Worrall. And it doesn't help that Hannah/Helen is a mystery, as well.
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Re: John Worrell - 24th Regiment (c1785)

Postby AdrianB38 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:26 pm

Hmm. I had a quick luck, with little success.

In Ancestry's "UK, British Army Muster Books and Pay Lists, 1812-1817" (these are the only MB&PLs online so far as I know - and not all of them are indexed), they have this:

Name: John Morrall
Start of Muster: 25 Dec 1814
End of Muster: 24 Jan 1815
Regiment or Unit: 24th Regiment of Foot, 1st Battalion
Piece Number: 4074
(I found it best to search on the Piece number, not the regiment, once I'd found it)

This guy is actually "Drum Major" John Worrall, ranked Serjeant. (Drum Majors / Pipe Majors, etc. are not commissioned officers - took me a while to learn that!). According to FMP, the 24th's John Worrall from Youghall was a serjeant and a drummer, so this guy must be the one that you've already discounted.

The only way that I can suggest is for someone to go to Kew, get the Muster Books and Pay Lists for the 24th out for the year that you know he was in - 1785, I guess. Then find him in that Book. Once you have found him then you can work forward, one Book at a time (each Book covers 3m), until you find his discharge from the regiment due to death / retirement / transfer to another unit, etc. Repeat in any new unit until you find his discharge from the Army.

Then repeat in the opposite direction and hope that when he joins the 24th (or any earlier unit), hope that there might be some clue. Also, once you have the full list of units he served in, then you can look for other stuff like Description Books, Discharge Registers, etc.

Best of luck. My Napoleonic soldier had a distinctive name (Pickstock) but even then I couldn't prove where he was born.
Adrian
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Re: John Worrell - 24th Regiment (c1785)

Postby MoVidger » Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:02 pm

Adrian - thanks again for the helpful info. I won't be near Kew anytime soon, unfortunately.

I'll continue to search for any relevant birth/baptism records for Hannah/Helen and John Jr, with hopes they might provide clues regarding John Sr. There is a 1760 baptism record in Edinburgh for a Helen Hume (father John), but at this stage, I'm uncertain what her actual name was. Marriage record says "Hannah", and John Jr's death record states "Helen". :?
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