Moderator Control Panel ]

RAMC - Gutsell

Having trouble tracking down a wartime ancestor? Share your queries – and help fellow researchers – here

RAMC - Gutsell

Postby AndyG » Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:05 pm

I have come across this photo in the family photo album.

The cap badge is, I believe, that of the RAMC. The Red Cross badge on the sleeve would tend to support that.

However, I can find no record of a GUTSELL in the RAMC !

Can anyone help, please ?
Attachments
20170723_161155.jpg
20170723_161155.jpg (1.39 MiB) Viewed 2585 times
AndyG
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:49 pm

Re: RAMC - Gutsell

Postby MoVidger » Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:00 pm

My great-uncle was in the RAMC from the Boer War to WW1. He had the same uniform and cap as the chap in the photo, although with a Red Cross badge on each arm (not one).

What is the full name of the person in the photo? On Ancestry, there is a Bertram George Gutsell
(also listed as R G Gutsell). Regimental number: 25877
MoVidger
 
Posts: 780
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:14 pm

Re: RAMC - Gutsell

Postby MoVidger » Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:19 pm

If Bertram is the chap in your photo, he can be found in the 1911 census living in Arlington, Sussex. Also, there is a Probate record for him, dated 20 July 1956. His residence was East Grinstead, Sussex at the time of Probate. Wife's name - Daisy Hannah Gutsell.
MoVidger
 
Posts: 780
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:14 pm

Re: RAMC - Gutsell

Postby midshipman » Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:17 pm

There is a Great War Medal card for Bertram G. Gutsell. R.A.M.C. 25877.
Currently "Ancestry" has free access to UK military records but the offer finishes today.

Sent from my SM-J320FN using WDYTYA Forum mobile app
User avatar
midshipman
 
Posts: 222
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:00 pm

Re: RAMC - Gutsell

Postby AdrianB38 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:50 pm

There must be a story there that we are missing because of the loss of so many WW1 papers - including his, I think.

There are 2 Medal Index Cards for him on Ancestry - his earlier one is recorded as R G Gutsell and records his 1914-15 Star (entering Egypt theatre in 1915, I think it was). And that's the Army's error, not Ancestry's.

The other aspect is that photo. 98% of the photos that we see here are standard WW1 service dress. This isn't. This is formal uniform - look at the braid on the sleeve. Was it taken after his active service in WW1? Or before? If before, the formal uniform suggests someone in uniform before the outbreak of war, rather than after when surely recruits would never have been given formal uniform.


Sent from my MotoG3 using WDYTYA Forum mobile app
Adrian
AdrianB38
 
Posts: 2636
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:07 pm

Re: RAMC - Gutsell

Postby Jethro Tull » Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:29 pm

CertainlyI agree with Adrian on this on about the formality of the uniform. I think the belt may help date this one more accurately, I am searching through my books to find a reference and so far drawing a blank. I can find pics of 1910 dated with a white belt, today's modern belts are equal bands of yellow, dark blue and crimson. The peak cap may be a good indicator of date too. There may be folks out there who can date from this too.
Sorry it's not much more help but may give some pointers.

Dan.
Jethro Tull
 
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:27 am

Re: RAMC - Gutsell

Postby AndyG » Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:18 am

Thanks for all the comments so far. ☺

I don't know this chap's name. The photo was not annotated, sadly.

The family photo came from the Gutsell family that used to live near Margate, in Kent.

Three of that family served in WW1 but they joined The Buffs East Kent Regiment. (No known involvement with the RAMC.)

William served in India. Stan went to The Dardanelles & Jim went to Aden & they all survived !
AndyG
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:49 pm

Re: RAMC - Gutsell

Postby AndyG » Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:21 am

There is also some fancy beading on the sleeve of the uniform. I haven't seen that sort of thing before. Could that be significant ?
AndyG
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:49 pm

Re: RAMC - Gutsell

Postby AdrianB38 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:27 am

I would suggest that you join the Great War Forum on http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php and post the picture there. Explain that you're trying to identify the picture and you are wondering if he could be the RAMC guy from the Medal Index Cards so would like to know if anyone can date the uniform and confirm a unit or type of unit for him.

Sent from my MotoG3 using WDYTYA Forum mobile app
Adrian
AdrianB38
 
Posts: 2636
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:07 pm

Re: RAMC - Gutsell

Postby MoVidger » Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:51 pm

For what it's worth, it appears Bertram (the young man in the photo?) is related to the three Gutsell brothers in Margate. Their father was Levi Edward Gutsell.

Levi was the half-uncle of David William Gutsell (Bertram's father). Both men were from Arlington, Sussex. It's a bit confusing as both men were born in the 1850s. One would naturally assume they were brothers. So does this make Bertram the 1st cousin-once removed to the three Margate brothers?
MoVidger
 
Posts: 780
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:14 pm

Next

Return to Military help


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests