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Descendants of Herbert Stanton Moss

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Descendants of Herbert Stanton Moss

Postby janblack » Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:23 am

Herbert was my paternal grandfather. My grandmother Harriet divorced him in 1929 for adultery with Grace Manson. He later went on to marry Grace in I think 1930. To my knowledge they had two sons Herbert and Alfred before they were married. They went to Canada possibly 1918/19 and returned to England in 1922. Would like to hear from any descendants of Herbert and Alfred who could help with any further information. Many thanks
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Descendants of Herbert Stanton Moss

Postby brunes08 » Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:25 pm

Herbert and Grace married in the Sep qu 1930 in Eastbourne. Ref 2b 218 - if you wanted to obtain a certificate of marriage.
Herbert D Moss is registered Mar qu 1919 in Wandsworth - mother Manson. Ref 1d 791. I couldn't Alfred's birth. It may be that he was born in Canada if the family lived there for a few years.
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Re: Descendants of Herbert Stanton Moss

Postby sdup26 » Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:35 pm

As you say, arriving in Southampton in 1922 from Montreal were Herbert Moss aged 48, son Herbert aged 3, son Alfred aged 2, and wife Grace aged 36.

Incidentally, the GRO birth entry for Herbert is under the surname Manson - Herbert D Manson, mother's maiden name Manson, MarQ 1919, Wandsworth 1d 791. I can't find a GRO birth entry for an Alfred, either as Moss or Manson, so as brunes08 suggests, he may have been born in Canada.

There are some fairly extensive family trees on ancestry for Herbert, but they don't seem to mention Herbert jnr or Alfred, so I couldn't even pinch some info from them for you.
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Descendants of Herbert Stanton Moss

Postby brunes08 » Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:30 pm

That's odd sdup26. The entry on freebmd definitely has Herbert D Moss - mother Manson - with the same details for the birth registration. How can that be? Was he possibly re-registered, or whatever the process is, to legitimise his birth?
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Re: Descendants of Herbert Stanton Moss

Postby MayHam » Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:40 pm

I'm confused.
If Herbert Sr. & Grace were already a family in 1922 where does Harriet fit in?
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Re: Descendants of Herbert Stanton Moss

Postby brunes08 » Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:39 pm

My understanding is that Harriet was Herbert's legal wife. Haven't found their marriage yet. They had obviously separated at some point before 1919, whether because of his relationship with Grace and the birth of Herbert junior or for another reason. Herbert and Grace had clearly then set up as a family unit. Their children were illegitimate because they couldn't get married until either Harriet died or she divorced Herbert which she eventually did. It was not easy to divorce then and might have been too costly for Harriet. Also Harriet might have lost touch with Herbert if he went to Canada so couldn't go about divorcing him because she didn't know where he was.
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Re: Descendants of Herbert Stanton Moss

Postby MayHam » Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:22 pm

There is what looks like a Herbert (but transcribed Robert) Staton living in Toronto in 1921.
Name: Robert Staton
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Married
Age: 43
Birth Year: abt 1878
Birth Place: England
Relation to Head of House: Head
Spouse's Name: Grace Staton
Father Birth Place: England
Mother Birth Place: England
Year of Immigration: 1919
Racial or Tribal Origin: English
Province or Territory: Ontario
District: York South
District Number: 144
Sub-district: Toronto (City)
Sub-District Number: 76
City, Town or Village: City of Toronto Ward 6
Street or Township: 212 Obrn Ave
Municipality: Ward 6
Occupation: Ipperantiant
Income: 750
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert Staton 43
Grace Staton 35
Aller Staton 16
Herbert Doctor Staton 2
Abel (looks like Alfred) David Staton 1
http://search.ancestry.ca/cgi-bin/sse.d ... &h=1774378
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Re: Descendants of Herbert Stanton Moss

Postby JMcK » Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:41 am

That certainly looks like a fit Mayham. Does that mean Allen (surely that is what it says, not Aller) is the son of Herbert & Harriet?

I can't see a Herbert Stanton - Harriet marriage either but there is a Robert Stanton m Harriet Dewey
1913 Sheffield 9c 1271 3rd qtr

However if that is Allen Stanton, the only birth I can see that seems to fit is Allan Stanton, BRAMLEY 1904 j qtr, vol 09B p 3555 mmn. AMBLER. and I am fairly sure that must be the son of John William Stanton and Louisa Ambler m Bramley in 1898.

Can't see a birth as Allan and variants MANSON either
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Re: Descendants of Herbert Stanton Moss

Postby MayHam » Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:47 am

In the 1911 English census, Allen Hudson Herbert Moss, age 6, was living with Herbert Satuton Moss, Harriet Moss, and sister Alleyne Dorothy Moss, age 14.
http://search.ancestry.ca/cgi-bin/sse.d ... &ml_rpos=8

MOSS, ALLEYNE  DOROTHY  
ALLEN  
GRO Reference: 1896  S Quarter in LAMBETH  Volume 01D  Page 476
https://www.gro.gov.uk/

MOSS, ALLEN  HUDSON HERBERT 
ALLEN  
GRO Reference: 1905  M Quarter in LAMBETH  Volume 01D  Page 431
https://www.gro.gov.uk/

Perhaps this is their marriage record?
Marriages Jun (Quarter)1895
Allen, Harriet
 St. Geo. H. Sq.
 1a
961
 
Moss, Herbert Stanton
 St. Geo. H. Sq.
 1a
961
http://www2.freebmd.org.uk/
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Re: Descendants of Herbert Stanton Moss

Postby sdup26 » Sat Jul 22, 2017 4:59 pm

As MayHam says, Herbert Stanton Moss married Harriet Allen JQ 1895, St George Hanover Sq 1a 961. They had Allayne Dorothy (1896), and Allen Hudson Herbert (1905) - 1911 census, Stockwell, London.

Unfortunately, the GRO birth register goes only to 1916, but Herbert D Manson's birth entry on freebmd in 1919 shows his mother's maiden name as Manson, which was Grace's surname.

The Toronto entry found by MayHam is interesting. It shows the ages of Herbert snr, Grace, and Herbert jnr as about right when compared to their given ages in 1922 when they came back to England. But "Aller" is shown as 16 - so could be Herbert's son with Harriet - Allen born c 1905, and baby 'Abel' could be Alfred, probably born in Toronto. When they arrived back in Southampton in 1922, Allen wasn't with them. Did he stay on in Canada, and if so, with whom, given his age?
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