Moderator Control Panel ]

Clare/Hibbert/Hawthornthwaite: Manchester, Salford

A problem shared is a problem halved. Post your brick walls here and see whether you can offer advice to others

Clare/Hibbert/Hawthornthwaite: Manchester, Salford

Postby DianaCanada » Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:31 pm

I would love to knock down this brick wall but fear the surname is throwing up a barrier.

Ellen Clare was first married to my ancestor Joseph Hibbert who died in 1852. In 1851 they are living at 6 Thomas St., Salford, Lancs but the page is so badly damaged their birthplaces are not readable.
Ellen married again, on 3 Oct 1857 in Salford, to Richard Hawthornthwaite, 50, bachelor. Ellen was 52, a widow, daughter of Henry Clare, nailmaker. Richard's father was John, no occ. listed.
They both gave Wheathill Street as their residence, no numbers. Witnesses were James Kilgour and Elizabeth Watson.
Cannot find them on the 1861 or 1871 censuses. I would particlarly like to find Ellen's youngest children with Joseph Hibbert, George b. Ca 1841 and Mary Jane b. Ca 1843, birthplace looks like Salford on the 1851.
Ellen died28 Mar 1874 at the Manchester Workhouse, Crumpsall. She was 71, wife of Richard Hawthornthwaite. He is listed as a brickmaker, but no address.
I have not located a death listing for Richard but realize his surname can be spelled many ways, some I can't even imagine!

Any help or ideas welcomed!
Last edited by DianaCanada on Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
DianaCanada
 
Posts: 291
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:37 am

Re: Clare/Hibbert/Hawthornthwaite: Manchester, Salford

Postby JMcK » Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:45 am

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss ... &ml_rpos=1


George was baptised 5 Sept 1839 Church of Christ, Hulme (near Manchester, Lancashire, England
parents Joseph & Ellen
his birth was spring Qtr 1839, Chorlton vol 20 page 267

I see on that Red 1851 census Joseph was a silk dyer and so are some of the children

Might this be George in 1861

George Hibbert
Age: 22
Estimated birth year: 1839
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Hibbert
Gender: Male
Where born: Gorton, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Ardwick
Ecclesiastical parish: St Silas
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation: Dyer

Condition as to marriage:

View image
Registration district: Chorlton
Sub-registration district: Ardwick
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 6
Piece: 2869
Folio: 105
Page Number: 1
Household Members:
Name Age
George Hibbert 22
Mary Hibbert 23
Ann Blakeley 55
Margaret Ann Blakeley 16


Then in 1871

George Hibbert
Age: 33
Estimated birth year: abt 1838
Relation: Son-in-law
Spouse's Name: Mary Hibbert
Gender: Male
Where born: Gorton, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Royton
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Oldham
Sub-registration district: Royton
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Household schedule number: 104
Piece: 4108
Folio: 101
Page Number: 18
Household Members:
Name Age
Ann Blakeley 65
Mary Hibbert 33
George Hibbert 33
George Hibbert 6

the marriage of George Hibbert and Mary Blakely is also on ancestry - only trouble is he says his father's name was John, but occupation of both George and "john' is Dyer


https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/ ... PUBJs=true
JMcK
 
Posts: 306
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:59 pm

Re: Clare/Hibbert/Hawthornthwaite: Manchester, Salford

Postby ianbee » Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:29 am

There is this birth
March 1852 Salford 8d 59
Hibbert, Joseph
mother Clare

Possible baptism at Manchester Cathedral?
ianbee
 
Posts: 2292
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:51 pm

Re: Clare/Hibbert/Hawthornthwaite: Manchester, Salford

Postby JMcK » Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:30 am

possible death for Richard


Deaths Mar 1900
Hathornthwaite Richard 82 Bucklow 8a 168
The district Bucklow spans the boundaries of the counties of Lancashire and Cheshire;

might be him in 1871
Rusholme Grove, Rusholme, Chorlton, Lancashire, England
Richard Hawthornthwaite, father-in-law, married. Brickmaker born Lancashire (looks like Whittle Hell Rods someone might know what that means! perhaps Wheathill road as per marriage??) Daughter is Elizabeth Thorp (b abt 1836) with husband George and family
JMcK
 
Posts: 306
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:59 pm

Re: Clare/Hibbert/Hawthornthwaite: Manchester, Salford

Postby DianaCanada » Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:48 am

ianbee wrote:There is this birth
March 1852 Salford 8d 59
Hibbert, Joseph
mother Clare

Possible baptism at Manchester Cathedral?


Thank you. I will have to recheck this one, now that ages can be seen on the gov certificate index, but I think this child died young. Strangely when Joseph Sr. died in Sep 1852, the informant was also a Joseph Hibbert of the same address. Obviously not the infant Joseph. It might have been one of his older sons and the registrar transcribed it incorrectly or even a nephew named Joseph (which I would love to know, as Joseph Sr. is another brickwall).
DianaCanada
 
Posts: 291
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:37 am

Re: Clare/Hibbert/Hawthornthwaite: Manchester, Salford

Postby DianaCanada » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:18 am

JMcK wrote:possible death for Richard


Deaths Mar 1900
Hathornthwaite Richard 82 Bucklow 8a 168
The district Bucklow spans the boundaries of the counties of Lancashire and Cheshire;

might be him in 1871
Rusholme Grove, Rusholme, Chorlton, Lancashire, England
Richard Hawthornthwaite, father-in-law, married. Brickmaker born Lancashire (looks like Whittle Hell Rods someone might know what that means! perhaps Wheathill road as per marriage??) Daughter is Elizabeth Thorp (b abt 1836) with husband George and family


Thank you. Yes, this does look like my Richard. I believe the bp is Whittle le Woods. I looked for a marriage for George Thorp and an Elizabeth and found a likely match in 1860, Manchester to an Elizabeth Watson, which matches the witness name on Richard and Ellen's marriage in 1857. So it looks like Elizabeth might have been a widow or an acknowledged illegitimate child of Richard's. No sign of Ellen, though!
DianaCanada
 
Posts: 291
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:37 am

Re: Clare/Hibbert/Hawthornthwaite: Manchester, Salford

Postby DianaCanada » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:25 am

JMck, don't think this is my George, but thank you for your help.
My family has no connection with Gorton, although there were plenty of Hibberts there. Mine seem to alternate between Hulme and Salford. My great grandparents lived in Ardwick briefly before moving to Burnley. My great grandfather was William Jr., grandson of Joseph who died in 1852 and his first wife Ann (and she's another brickwall!).
DianaCanada
 
Posts: 291
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:37 am

Re: Clare/Hibbert/Hawthornthwaite: Manchester, Salford

Postby Hagershorn » Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:34 pm

Diana (?), not just the Hawthornthwaite surname has different spellings, but the Richard Hawthornthwaite 1807 shown in the 1851 census in Manchester was actually Edward. Why he gave his name as Richard only the enumerator and Edward know. My "lot" were all ensconced in Salford about this time and were hatters and tobacconists. Incidentally Edward 1807 to 1878 also died in Crumpsall.
I have a Fam Tree colleague in Cheshire who has compiled trees of the Haythornthwaites and Hawthornthwaites with many different spellings. It isn't on line but I have a copy and will have a look over the next few days.

Regards
John Hawthornthwaite
Hagershorn
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:22 pm

Re: Clare/Hibbert/Hawthornthwaite: Manchester, Salford

Postby JMcK » Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:18 am

Did you notice that the marriage of George Thorp and Elizabeth Watson says she is a spinster but her father is Thomas Hamer, and then it looks as though wrt the children in the 1871 census - Henry is registered with mother's maiden name Watson, Caroline reg with mother's maiden name Hamer, and then Frederick mothers maiden name Watson again. (All Chorlton).

I realise this is a complete off shoot of your research, but interesting, and begs the question of what their real relationship to Richard Hawthornthwaite was.
JMcK
 
Posts: 306
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:59 pm

Re: Clare/Hibbert/Hawthornthwaite: Manchester, Salford

Postby DianaCanada » Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:18 pm

Hagershorn wrote:Diana (?), not just the Hawthornthwaite surname has different spellings, but the Richard Hawthornthwaite 1807 shown in the 1851 census in Manchester was actually Edward. Why he gave his name as Richard only the enumerator and Edward know. My "lot" were all ensconced in Salford about this time and were hatters and tobacconists. Incidentally Edward 1807 to 1878 also died in Crumpsall.
I have a Fam Tree colleague in Cheshire who has compiled trees of the Haythornthwaites and Hawthornthwaites with many different spellings. It isn't on line but I have a copy and will have a look over the next few days.

Regards
John Hawthornthwaite


Hi John, thank you for offering to have a look for me, eagerly awaiting to see if you find anything!
I have seen the Edward/Richard on 1851, wondered about that one!
DianaCanada
 
Posts: 291
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:37 am

Next

Return to General research queries


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests