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Clare/Hibbert/Hawthornthwaite: Manchester, Salford

A problem shared is a problem halved. Post your brick walls here and see whether you can offer advice to others

Re: Clare/Hibbert/Hawthornthwaite: Manchester, Salford

Postby DianaCanada » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:44 am

Thank you for the tip re Hawthorn. Couldn't find a death that made sense for my Richard Hawthornthwaite under Hawthorn.
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Re: Clare/Hibbert/Hawthornthwaite: Manchester, Salford

Postby Hagershorn » Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:22 pm

Can you give me a link to Richard's marriage to Ellen Clare. My Cheshire friend has found a Richard who might be yours, but he hasn't got a marriage for him.
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Re: Clare/Hibbert/Hawthornthwaite: Manchester, Salford

Postby DianaCanada » Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:30 pm

Hagershorn wrote:Can you give me a link to Richard's marriage to Ellen Clare. My Cheshire friend has found a Richard who might be yours, but he hasn't got a marriage for him.


This is the FreeBMD reference:

Marriages Dec 1857
Hawthornthwaite Richard Salford 8d 9

As mentioned in my first post in this thread Ellen Hibbert married 3 Oct 1857 in Salford, to Richard Hawthornthwaite, 50, bachelor. Ellen was 52, a widow, daughter of Henry Clare, nailmaker. Richard's father was John, no occ. listed
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Re: Clare/Hibbert/Hawthornthwaite: Manchester, Salford

Postby Hagershorn » Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:46 am

Thanks. I presume you have the marriage cert. Is there anyway you can send me a copy? If not don't worry I'll send for a copy.

J
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Re: Clare/Hibbert/Hawthornthwaite: Manchester, Salford

Postby ianbee » Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:17 pm

Marriage was at Salford St Simon, according to Lancashire BMD. Unfortunately, registers for that parish do not seem to be online.
Was Richard a brickmaker, as per the death certificate?
Other info would be address(es), witnesses
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Re: Clare/Hibbert/Hawthornthwaite: Manchester, Salford

Postby DianaCanada » Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:20 pm

Hagershorn wrote:Thanks. I presume you have the marriage cert. Is there anyway you can send me a copy? If not don't worry I'll send for a copy.

J


Yes I can send you a copy but probably not immediately. Is that okay?
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Re: Clare/Hibbert/Hawthornthwaite: Manchester, Salford

Postby DianaCanada » Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:28 pm

ianbee wrote:Marriage was at Salford St Simon, according to Lancashire BMD. Unfortunately, registers for that parish do not seem to be online.
Was Richard a brickmaker, as per the death certificate?
Other info would be address(es), witnesses


Richard was listed as a labourer.
As mentioned in my original post, both had Wheathill Street as their address (no numbers) and the witnesses were James Kilgour and Elizabeth Watson. Various Kilgours turn up in my Hibbert line as witnesses and a possible marriage. I thought Elizabeth might be Richard's daughter, even though he lists himself as a bachelor.

I don't know much about Ellen's background, other than her father was Henry, as per the marriage. She is not my ancestor, her first husband Joseph is, via his first wife Ann (maiden name unknown). I was hoping to find Joseph and Ellen's youngest children, last seen in the 1851 census, with their mother in 1861 or even 1871.
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Re: Clare/Hibbert/Hawthornthwaite: Manchester, Salford

Postby Hagershorn » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:55 pm

Yes, that's not a problem. I have my Cheshire friend and his brother, both interested. They are coming up with some good thoughts which I will condense in due course. I want them to see the marriage certificate and then they will decide if they and we are talking about the same Richard.

I feel that yr brick wall is softening a bit.

J
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Re: Clare/Hibbert/Hawthornthwaite: Manchester, Salford

Postby Joan » Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:26 pm

I found Joseph's marriage to Ellen Clare on Family Search when I was looking for something else
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Re: Clare/Hibbert/Hawthornthwaite: Manchester, Salford

Postby Hagershorn » Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:27 pm

Thank you. Yes, this does look like my Richard. I believe the bp is Whittle le Woods. I looked for a marriage for George Thorp and an Elizabeth and found a likely match in 1860, Manchester to an Elizabeth Watson, which matches the witness name on Richard and Ellen's marriage in 1857. So it looks like Elizabeth might have been a widow or an acknowledged illegitimate child of Richard's. No sign of Ellen, though!
DianaCanada


Whittle le Woods is about a mile or so from Brindle. My Cheshire friends have Richard Hay... from Brindle fairly well documented. He was born in 1807 son of John and Bella Hay... He married Ann Rigby in 1830 in Preston. Of interest, I have found an Ann Watson who married a Henry Rigby In August 1825. (Lancashire on line project). The name Watson has cropped up earlier in the thread. A Henry Rigby died in 1826 in Standish possibly leaving Ann to marry Richard in 1830. I have found an Ann Hay... of the right age died in Nov 1831 (Lancashire on line) buried in Mitton, but living in Preston. This would leave Richard free to marry Ellen. I haven't followed up Elizabeth daughter of Richard Haw... yet but feel that she is Ann's daughter. If she used the name Watson it would all fit.

Good hunting
John Haw...
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