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Irish Catholic Marriage Certificates

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Re: Irish Catholic Marriage Certificates

Postby shanew147 » Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:24 am

found the newspaper article... appears in several newspapers abt 6th Nov. with the same wording - no mention of a date of marriage or where the marriage took place , "..Lewis Vidoll Kelly of the 69th Regt. to Anne daughter of the late Denis Murphy Esq., of Mount Pleasant county Kilkenny..."

If the marriage was Catholic and took place in Dublin city then the best possibility is the one at St. Andrew's RC (Westland Row) Marriage of Louis KELLY & Anne MURPHY 29th October 1834 (transcript on Irish Genealogy), the image is on the National Library website - see last entry on the left page

EDIT : overlaps slightly with the details AdrianB38 posted while I was looking in to this.. I'll leave the post as I have the links to the transcript & image details...
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Re: Irish Catholic Marriage Certificates

Postby devonliz » Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:51 am

These marriages are 40 years apart! How do we know they are not father and son? To be (say) 60 years old and still in the army suggests he must have had a long career. I appreciate that it isn't impossible to marry at 60+, but surely he should have retired by then.
Does the death certificate from 1837 provide the name of the widow and the age of the husband?
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Re: Irish Catholic Marriage Certificates

Postby AdrianB38 » Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:13 am

Hmm - "of the 69th", rather than "formerly of..." tends to suggest a current serving soldier, which would make it very unlikely that it's the original guy that much later. Anyone serving still at that age would tend to be a senior officer, who would surely have advertised their rank in the newspaper announcement.

It might be that the Army angle is the route to follow here to see who this one is.

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Re: Irish Catholic Marriage Certificates

Postby AdrianB38 » Thu Jun 29, 2017 2:47 pm

FMP has a record set, British Army Officer Promotions 1800-1815 showing a Lewis Kelly joining the 69th Foot as an "Ensign by Purchase" on 5 January 1815 - previously a "Gent", i.e. a civilian.

Then he must have been promoted from Ensign (the lowest rank of officer, equivalent to a Second Lieutenant today) to Lieutenant in the 69th in October 1818, because there is a....

Lewis Kelly who is a Lieutenant also in the 69th (South Lincs) Regiment of Foot, date of seniority 1 October 1818, in the Army List for January 1826 ( )

He's left the Army by the Feb 1840 List. In fact, he's not in the 69th in the 1839 List but I can't find a full index to that list so he might be elsewhere.

So based on the sort of age that I think people joined the Army at, Lewis of the 69th is probably born late 1790s. But that's just an estimate.
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Re: Irish Catholic Marriage Certificates

Postby AdrianB38 » Thu Jun 29, 2017 3:15 pm

Trouble is with this sort of stuff... It gets interesting....

Also on FMP is a Record Set Sir Arthur Vicars, Index To The Prerogative Wills Of Ireland, 1536-1810, And Supplement (1914). This is an index created long after the dates in question to wills that almost certainly no longer exist. One entry included is an entry in the Index to the Hawkins Collection of Wills, it says, and it's for
1836 Kelly, Lewis, lieutenant on half-pay

Half-pay is semi-retired - they're not on active service but in theory could be recalled. (Officers got no pension at this time - but common soldiers might!)

So no certainty that it's the guy from the 69th but a possibility. While the obvious interpretation is that he died and probate was granted in 1836, I'm not sure this is true as another entry on the page is dated "1816 with Codicil in 1818". Now, you can't have a codicil after the will has been probated so maybe 1816 (or 1834 for Lewis) is the date of the will, not the date of the probate (or death). And could it be that Lewis is an executor not the deceased??? No idea!
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Re: Irish Catholic Marriage Certificates

Postby Vondick » Mon Jul 03, 2017 2:17 pm

Dear All, many thanks for your messages. I have now gone back over my research and have read Charlotte's Will (Lewis's wife). I have now come to the obvious ( how long has that taken me!) that this is the marriage of their son! I was confused by the middle name as we didn't know that it had been passed down to their son. Why not!! Simple!! Again thank you for taking the trouble to look into this for me and responding.

I have another problem that needs solving and it's nothing to do with Ireland but that's for another day!!!

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