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Ellen Elizabeth Thompson, nee Loveday

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Ellen Elizabeth Thompson, nee Loveday

Postby pjcastle1935@gmail.com » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:21 pm

Hi there, I would like to confirm who is the father of my maternal grandmother Ellen Elizabeth Thompson, nee Loveday by asking if anyone can find an army birth recorded for her. She was born in Richmond Surrey on 10 Oct 1880 (or 1881). Her birth is not listed in the National Index.
Have checked the 1939 Register which confirms the date.

On 26 Dec1906 she married my grandfather George Thompson and stated her father was Alfred Loveday, a musician. Starting with the 1911 Census I did a pull on all Alfred Loveday's listed as musician and going through to the 1891 census, the same one person kept coming up - Alfred Loveday. (1857-1912) born Colchester Essex.

Further research showed that Alfred had served in the army both as a trumpeter and drummer being discharged in 1888 and that both his father and g/father had also been bandsmen in the army (his father being a drum major). As far as I know I have the service records of all three.

Prior to his discharge Alfred apparently married an Alice Sarah and in the 1911 Census stated that there had been no children, so apparently although Alfred may have been her father, Alice did not appear to be her mother. Alfred's death certificate was witnessed by Alice and further confirmed that he was a musician.

In the London school records there is an admission to Beethoven Street School for Ellen Elizabeth Loveday, born 10 Oct 1880 listing parent/guardian as James Cole (stepfather). In conjunction with this in the 1891 Census there is an entry :-

James Cole, 59, painter born Henley on Thames Berks
Mary Cole, wife, 37, not known where born ((age is prob incorrect - 57?))
Ellen E Cole, daughter, 12, scholar born Richmond Surrey
Thomas J Cole, son, 11, scholar, born Richmond Surrey
Edward ((T)) Cole, son, 7, scholar born Portland Town London
Mary Cole, daughter, 4' born Kilburn

Was Mary the army wife of Alfred? Was James in the army and adopted Mary and family on his discharge? Who knows.

The coincidence of correct date in the first record and correct birth place in the second is very strong. Also in the school record by the same stepfather there is a Louisa Loveday born 28 June 1879 - not mentioned in the 1891 Census as she may have died early 1891.

In the lack of any birth record, is it good enough to accept the above circumstantial evidence that the Alfred detailed is infact Ellen Elizabeth's father?


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Re: Ellen Elizabeth Thompson, nee Loveday

Postby ianbee » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:30 pm

Hi
A sort of matching family in 1881 is at Shakespeare Terrace, Mortlake
They are Hands in the census index, someone has submitted a correction to ancestry, making them Hards
Mary Jane Hards Head Widow 27 Dressmaker, born Camden Town
Mary Louisa Hards Daur 1 Surrey Mortlake
Ellen Elizabeth Hards Daur 6 mo Surrey Mortlake

If we look for their birth registrations
Dec 1880 Richmond S. 2a 356
Hards, Ellen Elizabeth
mother's maiden surname Loveday

Sep 1879 Richmond S. 2a 370
Hards, Mary Louisa
mother Loveday

Not sure that there is a Hards - Loveday marriage!
What about the other children from 1891, Thomas, Edward, Mary? Have you traced their births?
Ian
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Re: Ellen Elizabeth Thompson, nee Loveday

Postby pjcastle1935@gmail.com » Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:08 pm

Hi Ian, thanks for reply. Don't quite know what to make of that. Certainly is strange to find something similar and will look into it As for the other children I did look into them but didn't get any joy but will keep trying. Will look into your info with anticipation. Thank you for coming back




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Re: Ellen Elizabeth Thompson, nee Loveday

Postby pjcastle1935@gmail.com » Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:04 pm

pjcastle1935@gmail.com wrote:Hi Ian, thanks for reply. Don't quite know what to make of that. Certainly is strange to find something similar and will look into it As for the other children I did look into them but didn't get any joy but will keep trying. Will look into your info with anticipation. Thank you for coming back




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Re: Ellen Elizabeth Thompson, nee Loveday

Postby pjcastle1935@gmail.com » Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:11 pm

Ellen Elizabeth Thompson nee Loveday


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Re: Ellen Elizabeth Thompson, nee Loveday

Postby pjcastle1935@gmail.com » Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:17 pm

pjcastle1935@gmail.com

Hi ianbee, could you please tell me the maiden name of the mother of Edward Cole born SQ 1884 ref 1c 628. Know there is a way to do but not sure. Many thanks your help.


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Re: Ellen Elizabeth Thompson, nee Loveday

Postby ianbee » Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:30 pm

Hi
You need the new GRO birth index, which is on their website. You have to be registered to search (you don't have to order the certificates!)
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/cert ... /Login.asp

This is what you will see for Edward, his mother was Dorricott
Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
COLE, EDWARD DORRICOTT Order
GRO Reference: 1884 S Quarter in POPLAR Volume 01C Page 628
Ian
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Re: Ellen Elizabeth Thompson, nee Loveday

Postby pjcastle1935@gmail.com » Tue Jun 27, 2017 4:23 pm

Ian

Thank you for all that. Been wanting to know how to do it for ages.


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