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David Lindsay d 1856 Radcliffe, born Scotland where and when

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David Lindsay d 1856 Radcliffe, born Scotland where and when

Postby lindsay grant » Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:27 pm

Family folklore says that my 3x great grandfather, David Lindsay, left Scotland in a hurry after excise men discovered his illicit whisky still. He ended up in Radcliffe and in 1821 married Ann Wallwork. The 1841 and 1851 census show him as a calico printer born in Scotland. Of his nine children, three went on to marry and have children. An 1855 directory shows him as a shopkeeper in Radcliffe and his 1856 death certificate,age 63,says he died at “Trusty’s”, which may refer to the workhouse or a Radcliffe locality.
So where was he born and who were his parents?
• An interview with Digging Up Your Roots, Scotland pointed to the Vale of Leven.
• Internet trawling and two online Scottish genealogy courses (I live in Australia) showed many Lindsay families in the Parish of Bonhill, County of Dunbartonshire.
• Contact from an Ancestry member ex Radcliffe had heard the illicit still story and also had a funeral card for a James Lindsay of Linnbrane, Alexandria d 1934.
• Searching did not show a David Lindsay born circa 1793, but a William Lindsay, son of Mungo Lindsay and Ann Johnstoun stood out as a possibility, with the family having links to LInnbrane, Alexandria through valuation rolls and census data.
• Research was hindered by no deaths/burials recorded for pre-1855 deaths and burials for the Parish of Bonhill.
• The Caledonian Mercury 1816/7 has reports of excise men discovering stills in the area.
• In 1819, a Robert Lindsay, was appeared in relation to the crime of aiding a prisoner to escape. William had an older brother, Robert, born 1783.
• In constructing family trees for Mungo Lindsay b circa 1746 and the James Lindsay d 1934, a John Lindsay b circa 1750 appears. Once as a brother to Mungo Lindsay and secondly as a great grandfather to James Lindsay. This may be one and the same person or two different people.
• My 3x great grandfather, David Lindsay, had two grandsons, three great grandsons and two great great grandsons called William – coincidence or a clue?
I think my next step is to engage a researcher to follow the Linnbrane property from Walter Lindsay (another son of Mungo) to James Lindsay. If anyone has any ideas on a way forward I would welcome them, thank-you, Alison Reid (an extremely edited version of my research).
lindsay grant
 
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Re: David Lindsay d 1856 Radcliffe, born Scotland where and

Postby Amazinggrace » Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:03 pm

Hi Lindsay,
Scotlands people doesn't list a David Lindsay birth for the relevant years.
Family Search however lists 1,187 Davids.Perhaps you will find something relevant there.
Good Luck
Grace
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Re: David Lindsay d 1856 Radcliffe, born Scotland where and

Postby Cmcquade » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:03 pm

I've found five David Lindsay's born in Scotland .born in Montrose,alyth,newtyle,kinnettles and errol. All have parents names listed.I've also looked a few years either side of 1793 and 25 David Lindsays appear.
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Re: David Lindsay d 1856 Radcliffe, born Scotland where and

Postby lindsay grant » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:32 am

Amazinggrace wrote:Hi Lindsay,
Scotlands people doesn't list a David Lindsay birth for the relevant years.
Family Search however lists 1,187 Davids.Perhaps you will find something relevant there.
Good Luck
Grace

Thanks Grace, I will have another look there and double check. Thanks for taking the time to reply, Alison.
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Re: David Lindsay d 1856 Radcliffe, born Scotland where and

Postby lindsay grant » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:33 am

Cmcquade wrote:I've found five David Lindsay's born in Scotland .born in Montrose,alyth,newtyle,kinnettles and errol. All have parents names listed.I've also looked a few years either side of 1793 and 25 David Lindsays appear.

Thanks for taking the time to reply, I will have another look in the other parishes as you suggest, cheers, Alison.
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Re: David Lindsay d 1856 Radcliffe, born Scotland where and

Postby lindsay grant » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:41 am

JMcKinnon wrote:I am sure you have tried anything I can suggest as it seems you have researched very thoroughly, however.

Wills...is Walter the shoemaker of Alexandria the one you mention? Does he mention siblings? ( his wife Margaret has a will too)

Have you had any success tracing Mungo's son William? Obviously if he can be followed then he isn't your David.

Jo


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Thanks Jo, Walter was a manufacturing chemist and dyester at Linnbrane, Alexandria, never married and died in 1865. I tried to follow Mungo's son William without any success. I think I may have answered my own question in posting this query and that is that I will need the help of a professional researcher based in Scotland. Thank-you for your time, Alison.
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Re: David Lindsay d 1856 Radcliffe, born Scotland where and

Postby Cmcquade » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:37 am

Cmcquade wrote:I've found five David Lindsay's born in Scotland .born in Montrose,alyth,newtyle,kinnettles and errol. All have parents names listed.I've also looked a few years either side of 1793 and 25 David Lindsays appear.


I looked at the 1941 census and noticed that James was his first sons name? From doing my own family research in Scotland a lot of first sons were named after grandfathers or the father himself and daughters after grandmothers or mothers. The only David Lindsay born 26/03/1793 that comes up with the father James Lindsay is in kinnettles. If his eldest daughter was named after his mother it would be David Lindsay born errol 10/08/1793 parents . Does this make sense? I could be totally wrong ,but I have researched a few family trees in Scotland and this seems to be the case most of the time.
I'll add the others so you can have a look
LINDSAY DAVID,DAVID LINDSAY/ANN LAW. 0. 18/10/1793. 312/50 135. Montrose
LINDSAY DAVID,HENRY LINDSAY/ISABEL BLAIR FR773 927 (FR773) 0. 28/04/1793. 328/30 430 alyth
LINDSAY DAVID,ROBERT LINDSAY/JANE DUNCAN. 0. 24/11/1793. 314/10 140. Newtyle
LINDSAY DAVID,JAMES LINDSAY/. 0. 26/03/1793. 297/10 0. Kinnettles
LINDSAY DAVID,ALEXANDER LINDSAY/MARGARET ANDERSON FR634 (FR634) 0. 10/08/1793. Errol
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Re: David Lindsay d 1856 Radcliffe, born Scotland where and

Postby AdrianB38 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:47 am

What concerns me is that you have clearly done a lot of investigation in Scotland but I can't see that you have any ability to recognise your chap even if you actually found him.

There are lots of Lindsays in Scotland (and the records are not as complete as those in England - a lack of death / burial records is absolutely normal. Even the baptism records are not complete since loads of non Church of Scotland are not indexed.). There were lots of stills and lots of Excise raids (and it's only a family story that might, in the usual way of things, have applied to another friend or family member).

Now, you may have done this already, but you absolutely must ensure that you have totally mined the English end first. Friends, family, neighbours, church... Any clues in wedding witnesses, in wills, in church congregation records, newspapers, etc. It would be really sad if a death notice for him in an English paper said, "Mr D Lindsay of Perth.... " and you'd never found it.

Frankly, before you start hiring researchers in Scotland to look for someone that they can't recognise, you need to hire one in England to look through the English records to see if there is a clue. At least they will know which DL is yours.

Now you may have done all this, in which case fine, I'll shut up, but I can't tell.

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Adrian
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Re: David Lindsay d 1856 Radcliffe, born Scotland where and

Postby lindsay grant » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:17 am

Cmcquade wrote:
Cmcquade wrote:I've found five David Lindsay's born in Scotland .born in Montrose,alyth,newtyle,kinnettles and errol. All have parents names listed.I've also looked a few years either side of 1793 and 25 David Lindsays appear.


I looked at the 1941 census and noticed that James was his first sons name? From doing my own family research in Scotland a lot of first sons were named after grandfathers or the father himself and daughters after grandmothers or mothers. The only David Lindsay born 26/03/1793 that comes up with the father James Lindsay is in kinnettles. If his eldest daughter was named after his mother it would be David Lindsay born errol 10/08/1793 parents . Does this make sense? I could be totally wrong ,but I have researched a few family trees in Scotland and this seems to be the case most of the time.
I'll add the others so you can have a look
LINDSAY DAVID,DAVID LINDSAY/ANN LAW. 0. 18/10/1793. 312/50 135. Montrose
LINDSAY DAVID,HENRY LINDSAY/ISABEL BLAIR FR773 927 (FR773) 0. 28/04/1793. 328/30 430 alyth
LINDSAY DAVID,ROBERT LINDSAY/JANE DUNCAN. 0. 24/11/1793. 314/10 140. Newtyle
LINDSAY DAVID,JAMES LINDSAY/. 0. 26/03/1793. 297/10 0. Kinnettles
LINDSAY DAVID,ALEXANDER LINDSAY/MARGARET ANDERSON FR634 (FR634) 0. 10/08/1793. Errol

I'll have another look at these Davids and the various parishes, thank-you. My David's first son was John born in 1822 and his first daughter was Mary, born 1821. Will keep on looking.
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Re: David Lindsay d 1856 Radcliffe, born Scotland where and

Postby lindsay grant » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:24 am

AdrianB38 wrote:What concerns me is that you have clearly done a lot of investigation in Scotland but I can't see that you have any ability to recognise your chap even if you actually found him.

There are lots of Lindsays in Scotland (and the records are not as complete as those in England - a lack of death / burial records is absolutely normal. Even the baptism records are not complete since loads of non Church of Scotland are not indexed.). There were lots of stills and lots of Excise raids (and it's only a family story that might, in the usual way of things, have applied to another friend or family member).

Now, you may have done this already, but you absolutely must ensure that you have totally mined the English end first. Friends, family, neighbours, church... Any clues in wedding witnesses, in wills, in church congregation records, newspapers, etc. It would be really sad if a death notice for him in an English paper said, "Mr D Lindsay of Perth.... " and you'd never found it.

Frankly, before you start hiring researchers in Scotland to look for someone that they can't recognise, you need to hire one in England to look through the English records to see if there is a clue. At least they will know which DL is yours.

Now you may have done all this, in which case fine, I'll shut up, but I can't tell.

Sent from my MotoG3 using WDYTYA Forum mobile app

Thank-you Adrian, you have raised a good point here. I will continue scouring the English end for more clues and see if anything turns up. Regards, Alison.
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