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Frederick William Wilkins + wife

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Frederick William Wilkins + wife

Postby Cmcquade » Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:28 pm

I'm trying to trace my great grandfather and his wife. We know nothing much about them apart from that they had 3 girls ivy,daisy,violet and 1 son John Frederick Wilkins (my grandad). From johns army records I can see his mother was called Nellie Wilkins and lived in Teddington where she lived until her death in 1984 (maybe). My grandad John was born 5.4.1919 Brentford,hanwell. We have the short birth certificate, but every time I try to apply for the longer version they can't find it. I've found a 1911 census,but that seems to be for a f Horace wilkins (butchers assistant).On johns first marriage certificate it says his father was a boot maker,but deceased by 1942. On the 2nd marriage to my nan the same thing. I've searched deaths,wills etc ,but can't find anything.I'm stuck and have no idea where else to look.
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Re: Frederick William Wilkins + wife

Postby trace » Thu Jun 08, 2017 6:41 pm

Do you know whether the girls were older or younger than John Fredk?

Poss 1939 for John Wilkins 5:4:1919 13 Bolan St Battersea....Electrical Engineer
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Re: Frederick William Wilkins + wife

Postby carobradford » Thu Jun 08, 2017 6:59 pm

Ivy (1921) and Violet (1922) were registered with mother's maiden name PIERCEY. I cannot find a WILKINS/PIERCEY marriage. This looks like John's birth registration:

Births Jun 1919  
Piercy John F
Piercy
Brentford 3a 158
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Re: Frederick William Wilkins + wife

Postby Cmcquade » Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:46 pm

The girls were all older. I have johns birth certificate ,but it's John Frederick Wilkins not piercy.
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Re: Frederick William Wilkins + wife

Postby Cmcquade » Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:48 pm

[quote="trace"]Do you know whether the girls were older or younger than John Fredk?

Poss 1939 for John Wilkins 5:4:1919 13 Bolan St Battersea....Electrical Engineer[/quote

I believe he was in the R.e.m.e and serving at this time. We have all his military records,but not much of a clue on that either.
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Re: Frederick William Wilkins + wife

Postby AntonyM » Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:08 am

What date was the short certificate you have issued ?
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Re: Frederick William Wilkins + wife

Postby carobradford » Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:15 am

Short birth certificates did not come in until 1947. What you have is probably either a certificate of register entry (a flimsy thing with very basic information which cost 3d) or an adoption certificate.
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Re: Frederick William Wilkins + wife

Postby AntonyM » Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:45 am

carobradford wrote:Short birth certificates did not come in until 1947. What you have is probably either a certificate of register entry (a flimsy thing with very basic information which cost 3d) or an adoption certificate.


A "Certificate of Registry of Birth" and a Short Certificate are essentially the same document whatever the terminology or heading on the paper and contain the same information.

Crucially at that time I believe it should have the entry number and register book number which would allow the local office (but not necessarily GRO) to find the entry with no difficulty.
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Re: Frederick William Wilkins + wife

Postby carobradford » Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:36 am

Forgive my pedantry, but there is a significant difference. The Certificate of Registry of Birth was little more than an official confirmation that a birth had been registered. Here is a link to an example:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... _Baker.jpg

The post 1947 short form certificate was introduced as a cheaper and more discreet alternative to the full version.

However, I agree that either document would contain enough information to allow the GRO to identify the original registration. The fact that it appears not to suggests an adoption some years after an illegitimate birth as in those circumstances there would be no entry in the birth register in that name.
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Re: Frederick William Wilkins + wife

Postby Cmcquade » Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:17 am

This is what I have.
Attachments
image.jpeg
image.jpeg (1.46 MiB) Viewed 1728 times
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