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Swindells family in Cheshire and Stockport in particular.

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Swindells family in Cheshire and Stockport in particular.

Postby kiwilong » Tue May 23, 2017 10:47 pm

Hello all.
I have posted on this forum previously regarding my g g grandfather, James Swindells, about 3 years ago, and received a wonderful feedback at the time. However, interest in genealogy has increased dramatically in recent years and who knows maybe someone on this forum may have fresh information.
James was a Royal Marine, joined in 1824 age 17 and was discharged in 1846 after 3 lengthy tours of duty. Whilst on the dry at Greenwich in 1839 he married a widow, Elizabeth Sutherland nee Adamson who had 2 children from previous marriage and she had a daughter with James in 1840, named Margaret.James made an Allotment in favour of Elizabeth in 1841.
Margaret appears to have married Edwin Hewitt in 1859 and had numerous children and died in 1887 i believe.
The 1839 marriage certificate, Swindells/Sutherland, states that James' father was Thomas Swindells, a Linen Draper, and as James says he was born in Stockport in the 1861 census my interest is in others with "Swindells" connections in this area of Cheshire.The Pigot and Co.'s directory for Cheshire, 1822-23 has a Linen Draper, James Swindells, living on Little Underbank, Stockport. Maybe my James' family?
Although Margaret was born in Greenwich she married in Hulme, Manchester, and i feel that James and Elizabeth relocated to Manchester following his discharge from the Navy. No census anywhere for the family in 1851 and i feel their record was one of the 1851 Manchester records lost during floods. About 10% were unrecoverable due to flood damage.James died in Manchester in 1865 due to an accident.The Coroner reported the death so no personal family information.
So, is there another researcher out there who has information sufficient for me to locate a baptism for James? be wonderful if there was.
Regards. kiwilong.
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Re: Swindells family in Cheshire and Stockport in particular

Postby sdup26 » Thu May 25, 2017 1:57 pm

I'm afraid this doesn't actually prove anything, except that a James Swindels (sic) with a father called Thomas, lived in Stockport around the right time for your man, but it's all I can find.
Attendance Record, Stockport Sunday School, Cheshire
James Swindels, father Thomas Swindels: 2/10/1814. December 1814. January 1819.
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Re: Swindells family in Cheshire and Stockport in particular

Postby kiwilong » Fri May 26, 2017 12:59 am

Thank you sdup26 for your post. I do have the 3 sunday school records you have found but at least they add weight to the possibility that my James, son of Thomas, was born and lived as a child in Stockport.Regards, kiwilong.
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Re: Swindells family in Cheshire and Stockport in particular

Postby sdup26 » Sat May 27, 2017 9:26 am

James, described as a Greenwich pensioner, is on the 1861 census for St Michael's, Manchester, but wife is named as Ann (born in Manchester), not Elizabeth. If this is correct, and James remarried after Elizabeth's death, does the marriage certificate repeat the information that his father was Thomas?
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Re: Swindells family in Cheshire and Stockport in particular

Postby kiwilong » Sun May 28, 2017 12:12 am

Thank you sdup26 for your post and interest in my Swindells family.
You are correct that the 1861 census entry for James is my g g grandfather and at the time he was living with Ann. Elizabeth died in 1844 i think, correct age but not actually proved yet.
I spent a lot of time trying to find a marriage for them without success, following all the James/Ann relationships i could find, there were about 12 or so i think, and was able to eliminate all, the conclusion being that mine were not married. Ann was a very sad person, she died in 1864 due to an accident in which she was burnt to death. According to the death cert and a couple of newspaper articals, Ann was blind, had been for 12 years, and was much addicted to alcohol. On the night in question James retired to bed before Ann leaving her sitting in front of the fire and was awakened some time later by Ann's shout for help. He apparently extinguished the flames but Ann died in hospital.
It seems that shortly thereafter he commenced a relationship with my g g grandmother, Mary Maloney which resulted in my g grandmother, Hannah Bella. Again, no marriage found. James was killed by a falling wall in 1865, 3 months after registering Hannah Bella's birth.
Both deaths were registered by the coroner and so no personal info available.
Cheers.
kiwilong.
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Re: Swindells family in Cheshire and Stockport in particular

Postby sdup26 » Sun May 28, 2017 5:49 pm

I couldn't find a marriage for James and Ann either. Nor for James and Mary. I'd hoped there might be more info on a second marriage cert. Poor James - I've now seen the newspaper report of Ann's death, and then for him to be killed too; it's a very sad story.
Probably as you've already done, I've searched Cheshire Parish Records for a possible James birth/father Thomas, but drawn a blank. It's possible that James wasn't born in Stockport, but believed he was because he went to Sunday School there, but unfortunately, apart from 1861, he isn't on a census to either confirm Stockport, or suggest somewhere else.
I'm sorry not to be able to help; do let us know if you find anything.
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Re: Swindells family in Cheshire and Stockport in particular

Postby kiwilong » Mon May 29, 2017 2:02 am

Hello sdup26.
Thanks for your efforts really appreciated.
Incidentally, his navy discharge papers quote Bolton, Lancashire, as place of birth but i have assumed that he may have not been sure of the place he was born as a 17 year old whereas at age of 54 in 1861 he may have been better informed.
Couldn't find a birth in Bolton either anyway.
cheers.
kiwilong.
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Re: Swindells family in Cheshire and Stockport in particular

Postby sdup26 » Tue May 30, 2017 5:22 pm

I'm not sure about that. Wouldn't you be more likely to remember your birth details when you were only 17 and presumably, hadn't been long away from home? Bolton is about 15 miles from Stockport, but as you say, Bolton doesn't help either!
The problem is finding a Thomas Swindells around the time of James' birth, regardless of where that was. I'm starting to see lists of Thomas Swindells in my sleep, and wonder if there's any chance James' father died before he was born. His father's name would still be given for the Sunday School records, and on his marriage cert to Elizabeth, he could have been simply repeating what he'd been told - "your father was Thomas and he was a linen draper."
Just for interest: James was born around 1807. In Marple (in the parish of Stockport) there was a burial in 1816 for Sarah Catherine Swindells aged 3, and in 1818, a burial for Catherine Bennett Swindells aged 17 months. In both cases, father was Thomas Swindells. These are within the sort of time-frame to be possible sisters for James, but that may be desperation on my part!
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Re: Swindells family in Cheshire and Stockport in particular

Postby kiwilong » Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:52 am

Thank you sdup26 for those thoughts.
Following up on the 2 girls you mentioned led me eventually to fivenine.co.uk and the family detail of Thomas Swindells, Linen Draper, 1782-1828, who married Catherine Latham 22nd August 1811 in Wybunbury, Cheshire.
The 6 children mentioned include the 2 you have found and the births range from 1812 to 1822.
In 1807 Thomas would have been 25 and i wonder if my James was an illegitimate son baptised with his mother's maiden name and adopted his father's name eventually. It would explain why i have never been able to find a birth record for him.
All conjecture of course but when I consider the number of people who have tried to solve this brick wall for me over the years without success i have to consider the possibility that something like this answer maybe all i am likely to get.
Thomas seems to have moved about somewhat and maybe he was a travelling Draper.
The children were baptised at Manchester, Salford, Marple and Chester. Sometimes baptised a second time in Marple.I will pursue this line anyway and see were it leads, probably nowhere.
Thanks again. Cheers. kiwilong.
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Re: Swindells family in Cheshire and Stockport in particular

Postby sdup26 » Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:53 am

I agree; James could have been illegitimate, which makes me wonder about this christening record:
England Births & Christenings 1538 -1975
James Swindells, chr 2/3/1806, St Michael Macclesfield, father Swindels, mother Mary (no surname)
Cheshire Bishop's Transcripts 1598 -1900
Same as above, but mother Mary Swindels, no father named.
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