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Help finding birth registration please

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Help finding birth registration please

Postby Ashbee » Tue May 16, 2017 10:35 am

I've mentioned John Lee (my 2xggrandfather) in the Military forum but wonder if fresh eyes might help me find his missing birth registration please?

The 1939 census revealed his d.o.b. as 18 April 1864, the 1901 and 1911 census say it was in Isleworth, west London. His marriage certificate (1899) says his father was John. I have death certificate (1956), will (everything to his only daughter) and burial (common unmarked grave), electoral registration, lots of anecdotal information about his army and working career but no service records for either.

The man is absent from the records until 1894 when his only child is born. He is missing from the 1871, 1881 and 1891 census. He is missing from the birth registers for 1864. There are no baptismal records, school records, army records, work records.

My only clue is that in the 1891 census John's future wife, Caroline, was living with her first husband in Islington and their neighbour was a John Lee aged 51, bootmaker from Ireland (John says his father is a plate layer in 1899). His wife was Ellen and there was a son, Henry, aged 12. I can't find this little family pre- or post- 1891. Also, my John's only natural daughter was baptised Ellen Caroline. I can't confirm a marriage for this John and Ellen nor a birth for Henry Lee - of course Ellen may be a second wife and Henry a stepson, so many possibilities but so few confirmations.

I've looked for this birth registration for more than twenty years. I've raced down the wrong avenue several times, getting quite attached to another family only to discover my error. Of course John Lee is a very common name, there might be other names that he failed to use (even on his will), and he might be wrong about his actual year of birth and place. I'm ready to accept I may never know but would be grateful if someone else could take a look, make some suggestions or tell me I've done as much as I can. Thank you.
Ashbee
 
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Joined: Mon May 15, 2017 11:55 am

Re: Help finding birth registration please

Postby sdup26 » Tue May 16, 2017 3:31 pm

If John is right about being born in Isleworth around 1864, the registration district was Brentford, and the only John Lee birth in Brentford 1863-65 seems to be DecQ 1863, Brentford 3a 61. The GRO birth index says mother's maiden name was Cott. But maybe you've already ruled this one out.
sdup26
 
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Re: Help finding birth registration please

Postby Ashbee » Tue May 16, 2017 4:58 pm

Hi sdup26.

I have because his dob in the 1939 census is 18 April 1864. It's possible that is wrong but for the moment I'm assuming not. I'll try to find this family again via marriage certs and census just to sure...thank you :)
Ashbee
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon May 15, 2017 11:55 am

Re: Help finding birth registration please

Postby sdup26 » Tue May 16, 2017 5:38 pm

I agree you should try to confirm or rule out John's actual birth date. Can be difficult though - our ancestors didn't have the daily reminders of birthdays that we have, like driving licence, pension book, passport and so on, and ages on censuses are notorious for being inaccurate, often a couple of years out or more either way, so accurate birth dates are quite unusual.
Having said all that, if John was indeed born 18th April 1864, his birth should have been registered in the June Quarter of that year (covers April, May, June) and putting Isleworth aside and settling for his birth county of Middlesex, there are two entries:
John Lee, Jun Q 1864, Stepney 1c 476, mother's maiden name Anderson.
John Lee, Jun Q 1864, St Martin in the Fields 1a 350, mother's maiden name Carpenter.

Just noticed this in the 1881 Census and wonder if it's relevant:
Walmer, Kent, Barracks (Royal Marine), John Lee aged 18 (b1863) born Middlesex, Pte RMLI
sdup26
 
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Re: Help finding birth registration please

Postby Ashbee » Tue May 16, 2017 6:31 pm

Those are on my list and I'm trying to eliminate them...I think the St Martins family is father Archibald whom I chased for a long time (rather liked him and his Suffolk forbears) before finding John's marriage certificate stating father: John.

The Stepney birth is harder, a possible family in the area in 1871 and 1881 but father, 'a gunner', is absent so no idea if he's called John too.

A quick search of marriages between Lee and Anderson and Carpenter didn't help...I'll keep looking.
Ashbee
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon May 15, 2017 11:55 am

Re: Help finding birth registration please

Postby gemmalrf » Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:24 pm

People's occupations sometimes changed over their lifetime and we can't always rely on them to identify the people we are looking for unfortunately (I had an ancestor who went from being a labourer to coffee shop owner) Though John Lee Sr’s occupation might be plate layer in 1899, he might have held a different job in the past but perhaps in the same industry.

Did you manage to find the address from the marriage certificate in the census records and see who lived there and look in the same enumeration district for other relatives?

I had a quick look for John Lee's born 1863/1864 with fathers called John Lee in Middlesex in 1881. There were two possibilities which I'm sure you've ruled out already:

9 Avenue Road, Brentford
John Lee, 1830, head, farm labourer
Mary Lee, 1832, wife, labourer assistant
Emily Lee, 1861, daughter, photographer's assistant
John Lee, 1864, son, butcher's boy
Nicholas Lee, 1866 son, butcher's boy
Minnie Lee, 1872, daughter, scholar

11 Hundreds London Road, Brentford
John Lee, 1844, lodger, labourer
Ellen Lee, 1846, lodger
John Lee, 1868, lodger, scholar

I also looked in the records for plate layers called John Lee and there were several census entries but all far afield. There were also railway labourers and ‘plait layers’. There were also some occupational railway records but they don’t give a lot of helpful information.
gemmalrf
 
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Re: Help finding birth registration please

Postby Ashbee » Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:49 pm

Hi, thanks for looking. I've had my eye on the second family for a while and think they are my best hope. They are in that area for the 1901 and 1911 census, the latter says they had one child and that supports a lack of other family and siblings in what I know about my John. They aren't in that area in 1871 or 1891 but I can find a possible family in Wales in 1871 and of course there's the John and Ellen in Holloway in 1891 but are they all the same family? If so, who and where was Henry?

I had a look at the addresses used in the 1899 wedding certificate, it was in Tottenham while they actually lived in Holloway so an address of convenience. I couldn't find an obvious explanation but I ought to cast around a bit more as you suggested.

However, I still can't find a birth registration but if this is the family then the reason is because they came from Ireland. It's a mystery :D
Ashbee
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon May 15, 2017 11:55 am


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