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Ralph Openshaw bap:1744

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Ralph Openshaw bap:1744

Postby Dene Fisher » Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:05 pm

Whilst searching for the above with parents of James & Margaret I found two records on FamilySearch for 29/4/1744 the only difference being that the first was @ Bolton-Le-Moors,Lancashire and the second was @ St Peters, Bolton.
Can anybody explain this?
Could it be that St Peters was a 'sub parish' with Bolton-Le-Moors?

Thanks

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Re: Ralph Openshaw bap:1744

Postby AdrianB38 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:06 pm

Bolton-le-Moors is Bolton and St. Peter's was the parish church thereof.

See LDS Wiki https://familysearch.org/wiki/en/Bolton_le_Moors_St_Peter,_Lancashire_Genealogy and https://familysearch.org/wiki/en/Comprehensive_List_of_Chapelries_in_Bolton_le_Moors_Parish. There's a lot of good stuff in the LDS Wiki and the work on Lancashire is excellent. Note that Lancashire parishes were big and each parish could have a number of chapels within, where baptisms, burials and even, if authorised, marriages could take place.

The FamilySearch indexers have never been renowned for consistency in their naming and the same place may come in under subtly different names for different films.
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Re: Ralph Openshaw bap:1744

Postby ksouthall » Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:37 am

Could one refer to the original parish record and the other to the Bishop's Transcripts?
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Re: Ralph Openshaw bap:1744

Postby Dene Fisher » Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:09 pm

Thanks,
Parish Records v Bishops Transcripts would make sense
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Re: Ralph Openshaw bap:1744

Postby AdrianB38 » Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:19 pm

Dene Fisher wrote:Parish Records v Bishops Transcripts would make sense

It might, except that doesn't seem to be the answer here.

In theory, it should be possible to look at the data and see what the answer is. Except... :evil:

For a start, when I repeat the search, the answers that I got on my phone were different from those on my laptop. Only when I took off most of the search criteria did I see both of the answers:

Name Ralph Openshaw
Gender Male
Christening Date 29 Apr 1744
Christening Place Bolton-le-Moors, Lancashire, England
Father's Name James Openshaw
Mother's Name Margaret Openshaw
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Indexing Project (Batch) Number C01084-4
System Origin England-EASy
GS Film number 1966742
Reference ID item 1


and then...
Name Ralph Openshaw
Gender Male
Christening Date 29 Apr 1744
Christening Place SAINT PETER,BOLTON,LANCASHIRE,ENGLAND
Father's Name Jas Openshaw
Mother's Name Margt.
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Indexing Project (Batch) Number P00715-2
System Origin England-ODM
GS Film number 942.72 B3V26B V. 1-4


The first one is the easy one:
Look on the FamilySearch site at option Search/Catalog and find film 1966742.
What you get is a page headed "Parish registers for Bolton-le-Moors, 1590-1974" and film 1966742 is down the page, as "Baptisms & burials 1712-1758 Marriages 1712-1754"

The second one had me tearing my hair out... That is not a Film number. I had to do a bit of inspired guess work. Use the FS Catalog to search for location Bolton-le-Moors (I'm not sure if Bolton is the same or not in the catalog - it is in real life). Expand not the Church Records, but the Church Records Indexes. You will see an entry "Computer printout of Bolton le Moors, St. Peter, Lancashire, England". Select that and you will see "Extracted from microfilm copies of parish registers and parish register transcripts on film nos. 0559179-0559182 , 0924156-0924160 (v. 1-30, 32-33), 0990099 it. 9 (v. 31) or book no. 942.72/B3 V26b v. 1-33 and film no. 0844811 it. 2 or book no. 942.72 K29pr v. 50." The bit in bold is the so-called Film Number of the second entry. So this second entry is not Bishop's Transcripts but printouts of Index copies (see the words in italics) done for or by the LDS.

So the second entry is derived from the PR as well, but it's at several stages removed from the PR because it's been manually copied by LDS members. This is absolutely typical of the sort of thing that can be found in FamilySearch - it's quite usual to see multiple versions. Why they've loaded not just the PR but an index to it, I've no idea.

And to cross check, if you have an Ancestry subs, you can find the original PR in the "Manchester, England, Church of England Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1541-1812" collection and the real BTs in the "Lancashire, England, Church of England Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1812" collection. Both refer to "James", whereas our 2nd entry refers to "Jas", indicating it's not the BT but a further manual copy.
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