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Help George Henry Smith

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Help George Henry Smith

Postby alilou03 » Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:23 am

I am looking for info on my grandfather, thanks to help on this site I found his service records!
According to his service records
Born 1882 Croydon
Father Frederick
Mother Louisa
Parents address 1900 91 grove road Sutton Surrey
According to the 1939 register his date of birth was 4/2/81
I am unable to find any census records, birth records etc that tally with the above info
Any help would be appreciated
Alison


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Re: Help George Henry Smith

Postby ianbee » Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:29 pm

Hi Alison
It looks as though this one might be a tough nut to crack. I've come up with absolutely nothing so far, let's hope someone else has more luck. There's quite a lot of info in the army record, the names of both of George's parents, an older brother Richard (no fixed address), and two later addresses for him. All leading nowhere!
Also we can see that he was a roman catholic, and his occupation in 1914 was marine store dealer.
Have you seen any sign of him in 1911? I've not even been able to locate him in the army in 1901, when he was supposed to be "home" - not even in Ireland under initials only.
Age on attestation, 18 years and no months, is consistent with a February birth, albeit in 1882, rather than in 1881 (as on the 1939 Register). Is that his death in 1953 in Hull, which could even put his year of birth back to 1879? Though of course the age may be inaccurate.

The address for his parents in 1900 is 91 Grove Road, Sutton. In the 1901 census there aren't that many houses in Grove Road, they have names rather than numbers in any case. Certainly it seems well to do, with quite a few servants about. I am wondering if he made that up.

He said his father Frederick was a Showman on the marriage certificate. So I am wondering if perhaps George came from a slightly unconventional background - travellers, fairground or circus folk maybe.
Ian
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Re: Help George Henry Smith

Postby alilou03 » Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:25 am

Hi Ian
Thanks for that info
Where did you find the info re his brother on the army records
George is actually my husbands grandfather and my husbands skin is a much darker tone than mine so I have always thought he had a background other than uk.
I too am starting to think George is of gypsy hertitage as there is a well known gypsy line from Surrey and fredericks occupation as a showman.
I have been unable to find any info at all other than what you have found for me
I think I may look at the gypsy line and see where that leads
According to family George died when my husbands mother was 14 so 1942 and there is a death in Norton radstock where my Kevin's mother was sent to in the war so I think I will get that certificate and piece info together
Thank you
Alison


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Re: Help George Henry Smith

Postby alilou03 » Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:03 am

Wow thank you
I will try and follow that up!


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Re: Help George Henry Smith

Postby sdup26 » Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:13 am

On his Army record, George named his wife as Olive Mary Harland, and said they married in Sculcoates (Hull), which they did, in 1915, (George H Smith - Olive Mary Harland, Sept Q 1915, Sculcoates, 9d 583) and had a son, George Henry, b1915.
The only Smiths living in Grove Road in 1901 are James and Mary, but maybe Frederick & Louisa had moved by the time of the census. George should be on the 1891 census, with or without his parents, but although I can find a couple of George Smiths born the right year listed as workhouse paupers, I can't find one with parents Frederick and Louisa.
Last edited by sdup26 on Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Help George Henry Smith

Postby alilou03 » Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:19 am

Yes I have been unable to find any mention of them all together and Frederick is not listed as deceased on the wedding cert
I am beginning to think they could be gypsies and I will never solve the mystery


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Re: Help George Henry Smith

Postby ianbee » Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:57 pm

alilou03 wrote:Where did you find the info re his brother on the army records

It's on the penultimate image, bottom of Military History Sheet (image 47907 on ancestry)
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Re: Help George Henry Smith

Postby Singleton1922 » Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:31 pm

You've probably already seen it but there is a useful article this month in the WDYTYA magazine March 2017.
My husband has gypsy ancestry too, and fortunately this was specifically mentioned on some of the parish birth and marriage records. The article lists several research sources and Smith is mentioned on various websites as being a common gypsy name ( though obviously there are a great number of Smiths who weren't gypsies).



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Re: Help George Henry Smith

Postby devonliz » Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:06 am

The Society of Genealogists are offering a book called My Ancestors were Gypsies by Sharon Sillers Floate.
The Rootschat site has a section specifically for travellers/gypsies.
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Re: Help George Henry Smith

Postby ianbee » Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:48 pm

Hi Alison
Are you still looking?
I've got a tentative suggestion, a possible candidate with a lot of ifs and buts. No direct link to showmen, or even the name Smith(!), and yet the idea won't go away...
I can't say that I believe it is your chap, only that it just might be.
I am also wondering, even if George came from some kind of travelling family, would we really see no sign at all of them in any census? And how likely is it that someone from that sort of background would join the army (other than in wartime)?
Ian
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