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Margot Grahame (clark)

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Re: Margot Grahame (clark)

Postby JMcK » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:56 am

I cannot find a death certificate for Bertie


1950, 1st qtr, 5D 154 London City
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Re: Margot Grahame (clark)

Postby LisaLime7 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:56 am

Thanks, for your help. I had previously dismissed the 1950 death because that Albert (Bertie) was born in 1876. I spoke to my mum who although knew nothing of his previous wife and child or that he was from Australia, did believe that he was 20 years older than Elsie. So I am going with the second scenario.
I have found no birth records for Bertie or Sydney. I have found three more siblings through the censuses: Mabel, Edith and Reginald. The only birth I can find is that of Mabel in 1871 with mother’s maiden name being Donoghue (this is spelt Donogoo and a couple of other ways). Reginald was born in 1880 in Essex.
The father’s name is Jay Henry. The family went from Australia to England between 1876 and 1880. I cannot find them on any passenger lists.
So a some stage before 1901 Bertie changed his name to Sayers-Clarke as both his wives and daughter used this as their surname. Why he didn’t have it on his death certificate while his wives did remains a mystery.
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Re: Margot Grahame (clark)

Postby ianbee » Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:19 pm

Found them in 1939.
Hertford Mercury and Reformer, 28 July 1939
Stevenage Court
Youth Charged With Shopbreaking
Roy Gaunt, aged 18, of no fixed abode, appeared on remand on a charge of breaking into the shop of Albert Henry Sayers-Clarke, High Street, Stevenage, between July 17-18, and stealing money, cigarettes, and other articles, and was sent for trial....
Evidence was also given by Albert Henry Sayers-Clarke, owner of the shop, and his wife, Elsie Sayers-Clarke.
Edwin George Dashwood, of 112 Haycroft Road, Stevenage, a hairdresser, in business at 52a High Street, Stevenage, gave evidence of missing a razor, value 6/-, a bottle of brilliantine, and £1 6s. in money....

1939 Register
52c High Street, Stevenage
Sayers Clark Albert, born 15 Sep 75, Married, Tobacconist. A.R.P. Warden (I think it's him!)
Sayers Clark Elsie, born 18 Aug 98, Married, Assisting Husband in Sh..
Attachments
Sayers 1939.JPG
Sayers 1939.JPG (29.4 KiB) Viewed 1011 times
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Re: Margot Grahame (clark)

Postby ianbee » Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:29 pm

Albert Henry was in trouble himself in 1936 - fined for keeping fireworks in open receptacles on November 5. That was in his shop at 49 Parade Mansions, Hendon.
See The Hendon & Finchley Times, 10 January
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Re: Margot Grahame (clark)

Postby LisaLime7 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:18 pm

Brilliant!!!! Thanks so much that is amazing detective work. Just looked at the original 1939 Register and it does have Sayers-Clark just no one could decipher it. That is one mystery solved, with the birth date of 1875 Bertie was too old to go to war and now with your find they were in England all along. Thanks again.
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Re: Margot Grahame (clark)

Postby JMcK » Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:11 am

Marriage of Henry CLARKE (no Jay) and Mary Ann Theresa DONOGHUE in 1867
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/indexsearch.doj

So it is feasible for Sydney Grahame to be their son as his birth about 1868. Cannot find any birth for any of the children though except, as you already have, Mabel Adelaide.
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Re: Margot Grahame (clark)

Postby LisaLime7 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:32 am

So from the time frame it is likely that Henry and Mary Anne were the children of convicts transported from England. I was born in England and live in Australia and have found convicts on both my mother-in-law and father-in-law's sides. I didn't expect to find more in my English ancestry! I haven't even done the research into my father-in-law's side yet, so I had better leave the Clarkes to another day. I wonder if Sydney and Bertie had any idea of their grandparents history. In those days it was humiliating to be related to the convict settlers but now it is highly acceptable.
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Re: Margot Grahame (clark)

Postby Sylcec » Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:56 pm

Lisa - that's rather a big leap to suggest that a couple getting married in Victoria in 1867 were the children of convicts. Possible of course, but equally likely that one or both came over with parents during the gold rush, or were assisted migrants or children of assisted migrants - possibilities are almost endless! The truth will only start to be revealed once you buy a copy of the marriage record.
Good luck - this has been an interesting story to follow.
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Re: Margot Grahame (clark)

Postby LisaLime7 » Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:57 am

Yes you are quite right Sylcec, I have already jumped to a couple of wrong conclusions with the Clarke's. I need to take a break from them and follow another branch of the family and come back later with a fresh perspective.
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Re: Margot Grahame (clark)

Postby petersmee » Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:05 pm

Hi, Thanks for all the research. I think I have now got all the info on Albert Clarke/Bertie Sayers-Clarke 1875-1950. I am bemused as to how or if he is related to Margot Grahame, the actress. I know Albert's parents were married in 1867 and Sydney (assuming he is Margot's father - her birth certificate says William Clarke but the 1911 Census has Sidney Grahame) seems to have been born in 1868 (per 1911Census). Albert's parents came to the UK sometime between 1876-1880; surely they didn't leave an 8-12 year old behind? Lisa, do you have any other info to link them? Do you have the reference for Elsie's birth? Could Elsie & Gwen been friends from Neath?
I'm still puzzled as to why Sydney & Gwen's wedding (c1905-6 per 1911 Census) can't be found. Why is Sydney not on the 1901 or earlier censuses? Has anyone found Graham Grahame's birth reference?
Any flashes of genius welcome. Pete
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