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White=Carter Brick Wall

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White=Carter Brick Wall

Postby Thos. S. » Sun Feb 05, 2017 7:22 pm

I'm trying to find like a marriage record for George White and Sarah Ann Carter. I seem to be suffering many brick walls with this branch so am annoyed I can't find something simple, although maybe they never actually married.
I believe George White was born abt 1867 and Sarah Ann Carter abt 1877. The 1911 Census gives 16 years of completed marriage, so this would put a marriage abt 1895. They lived in London, their first son John was born about 1897 in Mayfair.
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Re: White=Carter Brick Wall

Postby meekhcs » Sun Feb 05, 2017 8:09 pm

struggling to find the Family in 1911, can you give the censusreference please?
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Re: White=Carter Brick Wall

Postby Thos. S. » Sun Feb 05, 2017 8:19 pm

Registration district: Melton Mowbray
Registration District Number: 408
Sub-registration district: Melton Mowbray
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Piece: 19335

George White isn't listed

I should add that they later moved to Leicestershire. George worked as a groom.
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Re: White=Carter Brick Wall

Postby ianbee » Sun Feb 05, 2017 8:42 pm

Thos. S. wrote:their first son John was born about 1897 in Mayfair.

Where does Carter come from?
There is this marriage possibility
June 1895 Chelsea 1a 694
McCarthy, Sarah Ann
White, George

Marriage is on ancestry, was at Chelsea St Saviour, 29 May 1895
His father John White, her father John Edward McCarthy

Birth, March 1896 St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 416
White, George John
mother McCarthy

In 1901 George and Sarah are in Wimbledon (Kingston district) with daughter Violet White, 5 months, born Wimbledon
Only matching birth is
Dec 1900 Kingston 2a 322
White, Violet Frances
mother McCarthy
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Re: White=Carter Brick Wall

Postby Thos. S. » Sun Feb 05, 2017 9:15 pm

They had another daughter in Edith Constance White, b.21 December 1911

Baptism

First name(s) Edith Constance
Last name White
Birth year 1912
Baptism year 1912
Baptism date 26 Feb 1912
Baptism place Ashby Folville
Denomination Anglican
County Leicestershire
Country England
Father's first name(s) George
Mother's first name(s) Sarah Ann
Archive Record Office for Leicestershire, Leicester & Rutland
Archive reference DE960/5
Page 69

George's occupation is given as stud groom.
I then looked at GRO

WHITE, EDITH CONSTANCE Mother's Maiden Surname CARTER
GRO Reference: 1912 M Quarter in MELTON MOWBRAY Volume 07A Page 574
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Re: White=Carter Brick Wall

Postby ianbee » Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:57 pm

Sarah Ann Carter and Sarah Ann McCarthy may well be the same person
There is a Sarah A Carter in Chelsea in 1881, age 3. And in 1891, Sarah Ann Carter, 13, born Chelsea. Parents John and Alice. But there appears to be no birth registration in Chelsea.
There is however this one -
Dec 1877 Chelsea 1a 347
McCarthy, Sarah Ann
mother Crowk (misreading of Cronk?)

Looking at her siblings
James Carter, age 1 in 1881
Sep 1879 Chelsea 1a 365
McCarthy, James
mother Cronk

Kate Carter, age 5 in 1881
Sep 1876 Chelsea 1a 324
McCarthy, Kate
mother Cronk

Rose Carter, age 6 in 1881
Sep 1874 Chelsea 1a 306
McCarthy, Rose Ada
mother Cronk

Louisa Carter, 8 in 1891
Dec 1882 Chelsea 1a 365
McCarthy, Louisa Mary
mother Cronk

Edward Carter, 7 in 1891
Dec 1883 Chelsea 1a 352
McCarthy, Edward
mother Cronk

Amelia Carter, 5 in 1891
Dec 1884 Chelsea 1a 392
McCarthy, Amelia
mother Cronk

Emily Carter, 4 in 1891
March 1887 Chelsea 1a 397
McCarthy, Emily
mother Cronck

Albert Carter, 3 in 1891
March 1888 Chelsea 1a 400
McCarthy, Albert Ernest
mother Cronk

Constance Carter, 8 months in 1891
Sep 1890 Chelsea 1a 390
McCarthy, Constance Maud
mother Cronk

Looks pretty compelling to me.
Birth registrations in Chelsea as McCarthy. Baptisms in Chelsea as McCarthy. But the family appears as Carter in the census returns.
Possible marriage?
Dec 1866 St. Giles 1b 801
Cronk, Alice
McCarthy, John
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Re: White=Carter Brick Wall

Postby Thos. S. » Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:02 am

Thanks Ian, that's a great help.

I wonder why they used Carter instead of McCarthy?
Further back it looks as though the McCarthy line were Irish immigrants. Perhaps they changed their surname to avoid being associated with the Irish immigration in to London?


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Re: White=Carter Brick Wall

Postby ianbee » Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:13 pm

Hi
It may be something like that. There doesn't really seem to be any great mystery about them. But you'll only know when you start delving further back.
The baptisms in Chelsea are useful, and tie them into the Carter census address of 145 Pavilion Road. Which was also the address Sarah Ann McCarthy gave on that marriage!
And on her baptism record a birth date is given for Sarah of 11 September 1877.
1939 Register has at 13 Glebe Road, Sutton and Cheam -
George White, born 21 Apl 66, Married, Licenced Victualler Retired
Sarah A White, 11 Sept 77, Married, unpaid domestic duties
+ a couple called Rylance

Is that them? Because in 1945 George's d-o-b may have been amended to 6.5.79!
Ian
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Re: White=Carter Brick Wall

Postby ianbee » Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:35 pm

ianbee wrote:Is that them?

Could be. Obviously Sarah's date of birth is spot on.
Had the George White in question ever been a licenced victualler? Possibly. A George and Sarah White are listed at the Cheney Arms public house in Gaddesby (electoral registers) and George White is there in the 1928 PO Leicestershire Directory. Gaddesby is right by Ashby Folville, where Sarah and the two children were in 1911
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Re: White=Carter Brick Wall

Postby Thos. S. » Wed Feb 08, 2017 7:39 pm

Hi Ian, on Edith's birth certificate George's occupation is a licensed victualler. On the baptism however he is listed as a groom. Certainly seems like that's them.


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