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Birth of Elizabeth Davies, circa 1857-1859, in Darlaston.

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Birth of Elizabeth Davies, circa 1857-1859, in Darlaston.

Postby pforkes » Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:00 am

I thought that researching Jones' was difficult, but that appears to be nothing compared to researches Davis or Davies!

Elizabeth Davies married William Ford on 18th September 1876 at the Parish Church in Darlaston. She gives her father's name as being John Davies (dead).
William Ford died on 19th May 1878 in Darlaston aged 25 (he was born on 15th September, 1852, in Darlaston
On 14th May, 1882 (four years after his death) Elizabeth Davies gives birth to Maria Ford, in Darlaston. No father's name is given on the birth certificate.
On 23rd May, 1884 she marries William Tyler in Saint John's Church, Walsall. Her age is given as 25 (suggesting she was born about 1859). It also correctly shows that she is a widow and that he father is John Davies who was a labourer.

The 1901 census shows Elizabeth and William having three children and shows her age as 44 (suggesting that she was born around 1857).
The 1911 census shows her as being 54 years old (suggesting that she was born around 1857).

I am trying to find her birth certificate and all that I know is that she was born around 1857 in Darlaston and that her father's name was John Davies.
Attachments
William Tyler & Elizabeth Ford - married 1884.png
Marriage of William Tyler and Elizabeth Ford (nee Davies)
William Tyler & Elizabeth Ford - married 1884.png (883.59 KiB) Viewed 1745 times
William Ford & Elizabeth Davies - married 1876.png
William Ford & Elizabeth Davies - married 1876.png (816.54 KiB) Viewed 1745 times
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Re: Birth of Elizabeth Davies, circa 1857-1859, in Darlaston

Postby lojo41 » Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:15 am

This is Elizabeth's baptism record

Name: Elizabeth Davies
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 16 Apr 1856
Baptism Place: Saint Lawrence, Darlaston Near Wolverhampton, Stafford, England
Father: John Davies
Mother: Maria
FHL Film Number: 1470943


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Re: Birth of Elizabeth Davies, circa 1857-1859, in Darlaston

Postby lojo41 » Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:42 am

I think it's one of these unless know the maiden name of Elizabeth's mother

DAVIES, ELIZABETH JOHNSON Order
GRO Reference: 1855 M Quarter in WOLVERHAMPTON Volume 06B Page 467 Order
DAVIES, ELIZABETH NOCK Order
GRO Reference: 1855 J Quarter in WOLVERHAMPTON Volume 06B Page 394 Order
DAVIES, ELIZABETH JONES Order
GRO Reference: 1855 S Quarter in WOLVERHAMPTON Volume 06B Page 460 Order
DAVIES, ELIZABETH GRAVES Order
GRO Reference: 1856 M Quarter in WOLVERHAMPTON Volume 06B Page 430


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Re: Birth of Elizabeth Davies, circa 1857-1859, in Darlaston

Postby Sylcec » Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:19 pm

This may be the family on the 1861 census, as per Ancestry:
Name: Elizabeth Davis
Age: 2
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: John Davis
Mother's name: Mary Davis
Gender: Female
Where born: Darlaston, Staffordshire, England
Civil Parish: Darlaston
Ecclesiastical parish: Darlaston
County/Island: Staffordshire
Registration district: Walsall
Sub-registration district: Darlaston
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Household schedule number: 49
Ref: RG9/2009, fol.84, p.9
Household Members:
Name Age
John Davis 33
Mary Davis 32
Thomas Davis 12
William Davis 6
Sarah A Davis 3
Elizabeth Davis 2
John Davis 1

Father John is a coal miner, b. Darlaston, mother Mary b. Bilston.
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Re: Birth of Elizabeth Davies, circa 1857-1859, in Darlaston

Postby Sylcec » Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:54 pm

Try this family instead, age of Elizabeth corresponds with baptism found by lojo41:
RG 9; Piece: 2010; Folio: 69; Page: 2; GSU roll: 542902
Name: Elizth Davis
Age: 5
Estimated birth year: 1856
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: John Davis
Mother's name: Moria Davis
Gender: Female
Where born: Darlaston, Staffordshire, England
Ecclesiastical parish: Darlaston St George
Town: Darlaston
County/Island: Staffordshire
Registration district: Walsall
Sub-registration district: Darlaston
Household Members:
Name Age
John Davis 38
Moria Davis 34
John Davis 12
Sarah Ann Davis 9
Elizth Davis 5
Edward Davis 2

all family born at Darlaston and father is a labourer.
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Re: Birth of Elizabeth Davies, circa 1857-1859, in Darlaston

Postby Sylcec » Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:08 pm

Possible marriage of parents (from Familysearch):
Name John Davis
Spouse's Name Maria Lewis
Event Date 23 Dec 1846
Event Place St. Peter, Wolverhampton, Stafford, England
Father's Name J. Davis
Spouse's Father's Name W. Lewis

However, there is also a slightly earlier entry which I am sure refers to the same couple:
Name John Davies
Spouse's Name Maria Lewis
Event Date 06 Dec 1846
Event Place Wolverhampton, Stafford, England
Although I can't be sure, not having seen the original record, I suspect this record refers to Marriage banns (or possibly licence).

Another possibility is this one:
Name John Davies
Birth Date 1824
Age 24
Spouse's Name Maria Skellern
Spouse's Birth Date 1824
Spouse's Age 24
Event Date 10 Dec 1848
Event Place Biddulph, Stafford, England
Father's Name John Davies
Spouse's Father's Name Hugh Skellern

but neither of these wives have a maiden name corresponding to births suggested by lojo for Elizabeth.
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Re: Birth of Elizabeth Davies, circa 1857-1859, in Darlaston

Postby pforkes » Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:20 pm

lojo41 wrote:This is Elizabeth's baptism record

Name: Elizabeth Davies
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 16 Apr 1856
Baptism Place: Saint Lawrence, Darlaston Near Wolverhampton, Stafford, England
Father: John Davies
Mother: Maria
FHL Film Number: 1470943


The challenge that I have with this record, is that the 1861 census has her as being 2 years old, that would put her birth around 1858-1859 (I would suspect that the parents are less likely to get the age of a two-year old wrong than, say a 22 year old).

The 1861 and 1871 census show her mother as Mary and that she has a brother (Thomas) 10-years older than her and a sister (Sarah A) 1-year older than she is.

I have searched the GRO birth records but have not found Sarah A, Thomas or Elizabeth with the surname Davies and all of whom have the the same mother’s maiden name. Please feel free to double-check, in case I have missed something.
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Re: Birth of Elizabeth Davies, circa 1857-1859, in Darlaston

Postby Sylcec » Thu Jan 26, 2017 1:47 am

You said:
The challenge that I have with this record, is that the 1861 census has her as being 2 years old, that would put her birth around 1858-1859 (I would suspect that the parents are less likely to get the age of a two-year old wrong than, say a 22 year old).

The 1861 and 1871 census show her mother as Mary and that she has a brother (Thomas) 10-years older than her and a sister (Sarah A) 1-year older than she is.


Are you sure that you are looking at the right family in the 1861 census? Have you checked out the 2nd reference I gave you which showed Elizabeth as 5 years old in 1861 and would therefore fit with a birth in 1856?
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Re: Birth of Elizabeth Davies, circa 1857-1859, in Darlaston

Postby pforkes » Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:37 am

Sylcec wrote:You said:
Are you sure that you are looking at the right family in the 1861 census? Have you checked out the 2nd reference I gave you which showed Elizabeth as 5 years old in 1861 and would therefore fit with a birth in 1856?


The 1911 census also has her married to William Tyler

The 1901 census has her married to William Tyler (which is correct).

The 1891 census has all kinds of transcription errors. For a start, Tyler is transcribed as “Tylor”.
Willam (her husband) has his age increased by ten years in the original.
Elizabeth’s age (35) puts her birth year at 1856.
Elizabeth’s eldest daughter (Maria) is transcribed as “Merian” but has the right year of birth.
The next daughter Ellen (aka Nellie) is transcribed as “Hellie” but has the right year of birth.
William is shown as being two years old (which would be correct)
Job is shown as being 2-years old, as well, but I can find nor record of him in the GRO, for this year. The 1901 census shows him as being 10 years old, which suggests that the original census record is wrong. The 1911 census shows him as being 20 years old (again, suggesting that the 1891 census written record is wrong).

This is what the GRO lists as their children:
Maria (who is my sister-in-law’s great grandmother) was born after Elizabeth Davis’s first husband had died, but before Elizabeth Davis married her second husband (William Tyler). I have her birth and death certificates. She was born on 14th May 1882 in Darlaston and died on 23rd September 1917 in Newtown, near Walsall.
Ellen aka Nellie is shown as being registered in the September quarter of 1886 and registered in Walsall. Her mother’s maiden name is given as “Davis” (not “Davies”).
William is shown as being registered in the September quarter of 1888 in Walsall. Again, the mother’s maiden name is given as “Davis” (not “Davies”).
Job has no record of a “Job” born about 1888 in the GRO. BUT there is a Job Tyler registered in the December quarter of 1890 in Walsall a mother’s maiden name of “Ford (which was her surname form her previous marriage)….

Charles Ford Tyler was born in the December quarter of 1884 and registered in Walsall. Again, the mother’s maiden name is given as “Davis” (not “Davies”). Elizabeth Ford (née Davies) married William Tyler on 23rd November, 1884).
Charles Ford Tyler died June quarter of 1885 in Walsall age 6. No birth record for this child can be found for a child with name around 1878). Maybe the age was mis-transcribed as 6 (instead of 0)?

If you can find her in the 1881 census, then please let me know. She would have been a widow, in 1881 (for almost three years) and would presumably be living in Darlaston.

Peter
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Re: Birth of Elizabeth Davies, circa 1857-1859, in Darlaston

Postby Mick Loney » Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:06 am

As soon as I saw peter's reply concerning William AND Job being shown age 2 in 1891, my first thought was that there was another typo in the census, and Job's age should have read 2days, weeks or months, not years! This would explain the 1890 GRO entry!


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