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Clark Family

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Re: Clark Family

Postby ianbee » Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:56 pm

Thanks for the kind words.
There certainly is a lot more to uncover.
Eliza (and Harry?) seem to have gone to some lengths to make the boys appear legitimate. Only for John Horne Clark to spill the beans in his will!

I thought that Salem Place address sounded familiar, looks like John had set Eliza up there?
Ian
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Re: Clark Family

Postby kdeering75 » Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:16 pm

He gave them some stocks he had (Water Company or something) but Frederick was never mentioned. I wonder if he perhaps died before John.
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Re: Clark Family

Postby ianbee » Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:40 pm

Hi
He was in the army.
Frederick Clark attested for the Royal Artillery, 15 July 1878, at Aldershot
Reg no. 218 (originally 2632?)
aged 18, born Fulham, Middlesex
trade or calling Painter
Next of kin Father John Horne (St Johns ?)
That is crossed out, and above it says mother Eliza Horne
and later says - Wife Caroline Louisa
Married Caroline Louisa Boyce, St Johns Woolwich Kent, 10th May 1885

The marriage is on ancestry. The image is fuzzy -
Frederick William Clark, Soldier, father John Horne Clark, Auctioneer

Army record gives a full description. Frederick doesn't seem to have served abroad.
Think he was transferred to the Army Reserve in 1886.
So in the 1881 census he should be the chap in Woolwich Barracks, Frederick Clarke, 22, Gunner Royl Arty, born Middlesex Fulham.
Ian
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Re: Clark Family

Postby ianbee » Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:27 pm

That death Jo found - in March quarter 1928 Islington - that matched the Fulham born Frederick Clark. It could indeed be the right one. It could also tie up with some census entries.
Electoral registers have Frederick/Frederick William Clark and Annie Clark listed together at 30 Moray Road, Islington (North) from the end of WW1 to 1927.
In 1928 Annie Clark is listed there, but not Frederick. I would have thought he might have been on that one, but it still looks promising.
In fact they were at that address in 1911, though here unfortunately Frederick's age is out (possibly hers is too!) -
Frederick Clark 54 Commercial Traveller, born Walham Green
Annie Clark 56 Clerkenwell
married 22 years, no children

1901
piece 201 folio 96 page 23
46 Benwell Road
Frederick Clark Head 40 Commercial Traveller London Fulham
Annie Clark Wife 43 London Islington

No real proof it is him, but if it is, what happened to Caroline Louisa?
Deceased online has a burial indexed in Islington (presumably Islington Cemetery)
Clark, Frederick William Edward
buried 30 January 1928
1 other person in the grave
That other person could be Annie Clark, buried 2 November 1932 (1 other person in grave)
Dec qtr 1932, Islington, Annie Clark, age 74.
Ian
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Re: Clark Family

Postby kdeering75 » Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:52 pm

you are really good at this...any suggestions when looking? I feel like I'm always missing something.
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Re: Clark Family

Postby kdeering75 » Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:18 pm

ianbee wrote:Hi
He was in the army.
Frederick Clark attested for the Royal Artillery, 15 July 1878, at Aldershot
Reg no. 218 (originally 2632?)
aged 18, born Fulham, Middlesex
trade or calling Painter
Next of kin Father John Horne (St Johns ?)
That is crossed out, and above it says mother Eliza Horne
and later says - Wife Caroline Louisa
Married Caroline Louisa Boyce, St Johns Woolwich Kent, 10th May 1885

The marriage is on ancestry. The image is fuzzy -
Frederick William Clark, Soldier, father John Horne Clark, Auctioneer

Army record gives a full description. Frederick doesn't seem to have served abroad.
Think he was transferred to the Army Reserve in 1886.
So in the 1881 census he should be the chap in Woolwich Barracks, Frederick Clarke, 22, Gunner Royl Arty, born Middlesex Fulham.
Ian

Are you looking at Ancestry army records? I'm still trying to find his record....I have full access.
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Re: Clark Family

Postby kdeering75 » Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:31 pm

ianbee wrote:Married Caroline Louisa Boyce, St Johns Woolwich Kent, 10th May 1885

The marriage is on ancestry. The image is fuzzy -
Frederick William Clark, Soldier, father John Horne Clark, Auctioneer

Ian


This makes sense because John Horne was an auctioneer.

At closer look (zoomed), it looks like Caroline was a widow. Perhaps it says she was 26 (but I could be wrong).
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Re: Clark Family

Postby kdeering75 » Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:09 pm

Holy crow I figured it out lol. I used FreeBMD and figured out that Caroline Louisa "PELLING" married Oscar Arthur Boyce.

I checked Ancestry and found the marriage and because it's clear, her father is John Pelling, builder. Married in May 1879 in Islington.

It's very curious what you learn once you know what you are looking for.

1881 her husband is living in alone but married in Islington. He was born in Germany according to the census.

I found in him a workhouse after admission to an infirmary on Aug 22, 1881. Also mentioned that he is a Bachelor.

He died in January 1883 in an asylum after admission on Aug 29, 1881.

Which begs the question, where was his wife through this. I guess all ancestors and those related have skeletons in their closets.
Last edited by kdeering75 on Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Clark Family

Postby ianbee » Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:43 pm

Hi
Yes, Oscar seems to have died in Hanwell asylum. See the Lunacy Patients Admission Registers, 1846-1912 on ancestry.
He was in the workhouse in Islington for a few days first. I don't think there is a surviving Reception Order in Islington, but among their workhouse poor law records is his admission to Ishmael Ward.
Another workhouse record says that he was admitted from 11 Cottenham Rd. And he is there in the 1881 census, married, but no wife at home.

The Army record for Frederick is on findmypast. I think there are about ten pages, a couple are duplicates. If you don't have access, and want to see them, that website often has offers along the lines of £1 for a month, and military records are sometimes are available for free at Armistice time (as with ancestry)

As for finding these things, it's just persistence I'm afraid! No magic wand. Different people find different things. For Eliza and the boys in 1861 I just looked for any Frederick aged 1 in Kensington district, particularly Fulham, and hoped something would turn up.

On the subject of military records - it reminded me to look anew for a different person, the James Deerning from Ireland who was in the army and we discussed before as an outside candidate to be Isabella's husband. Well, he has a pension record in class WO116 at The National Archives, which luckily can be viewed for free on their website (as suggested by AdrianB38), and is indexed but not available on ancestry. One new piece of info - his intended place of residence on discharge was Tower Hill, London (he was discharged at Aldershot in 1882)
Ian
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Re: Clark Family

Postby kdeering75 » Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:14 pm

Ian

Yes, Oscar seems to have died in Hanwell asylum. See the Lunacy Patients Admission Registers, 1846-1912 on ancestry.
He was in the workhouse in Islington for a few days first. I don't think there is a surviving Reception Order in Islington, but among their workhouse poor law records is his admission to Ishmael Ward.
Another workhouse record says that he was admitted from 11 Cottenham Rd. And he is there in the 1881 census, married, but no wife at home.


I was typing and cooking as I added that detail.
The Army record for Frederick is on findmypast. I think there are about ten pages, a couple are duplicates. If you don't have access, and want to see them, that website often has offers along the lines of £1 for a month, and military records are sometimes are available for free at Armistice time (as with ancestry)


I have a "starter" package via Ontario Genealogical Society so those are records I can't receive via my subscription. I'll have to see the cost of the records.

As for finding these things, it's just persistence I'm afraid! No magic wand. Different people find different things. For Eliza and the boys in 1861 I just looked for any Frederick aged 1 in Kensington district, particularly Fulham, and hoped something would turn up.

On the subject of military records - it reminded me to look anew for a different person, the James Deerning from Ireland who was in the army and we discussed before as an outside candidate to be Isabella's husband. Well, he has a pension record in class WO116 at The National Archives, which luckily can be viewed for free on their website (as suggested by AdrianB38), and is indexed but not available on ancestry. One new piece of info - his intended place of residence on discharge was Tower Hill, London (he was discharged at Aldershot in 1882)


You have a remarkable memory. James disappeared from the census after 1891 and Isabella was alone from what I could tell by 1893. I confirmed with his employer at the time "Natural Museum and yes I called lol and received back an email.

Many apologies for the delay in getting back to you. We have researched this for you and James Deering is listed as an employee of The British Museum (Natural History) in the Messengers etc. section as a Labourer and Window Cleaner continually from April 1883 until May 1892 (he isn’t listed in October 1892 or January 1893) so this may give you a clue as to when he actually died or at least became ill. He was continually paid the annual sum of 62 pounds 12 shillings and 0 pence during his employment. He commenced employment on the 2nd of April 1883 when the Museum appears to have increased the number of Labourers and Window Cleaners from 20 to 29. This I’m afraid is all the information we have.


So it is possible he is one of the same as he was employed there from 1883 to 1892. He was listed from Ireland in the 1891 Census. According to their marriage certificate, James father was James listed as a Bricklayer.

Isabella life ended her in Holloway Prison with a child from a possible "John" as she worked in a bar. She was in and out of their till the 1920's where she died in 1942 living with her daughter Dorothy. Kathleen had been shipped to Eliza's relatives on the Collins side and John Wilfred was sent to Canada.

Unfortunately Dorothy had no children from her marriage and Kathleen never married. John Wilfred and a good size family. It would have been nice to find some relatives "removed".

Here's the thread from way back:

http://www.whodoyouthinkyouaremagazine.com/forum/topic10274-10.html
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