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Help needed with missing Humphrey ancestors

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Re: Help needed with missing Humphrey ancestors

Postby suecar53 » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:19 pm

can see from previous posts that Margaret Humphrey may have been in an asylum after 1878. If you contact the relevant record offices they may have the actual patient records. I was able to view one of my family members records at the Norfolk Record Office, there was even a photograph. It can be quite a hard read but interesting never the less. Its amazing how long people were kept in the asylum.
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Re: Help needed with missing Humphrey ancestors

Postby ianbee » Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:38 pm

Margaret was not the only patient to transfer from Berrywood to Kesteven in 1907 -
Stamford Mercury - Friday 29 March 1907
Kesteven County Council
The County Asylum
The Committe of Visitors presented their report for the year 1906-7.
..the committee are glad to report that they have with the approval the Lunacy Commissioners entered into a contract with the Committee of Visitors of the County Council of the Soke of Peterborough, whose pauper lunatics have hitherto been received by the county of Northampton in their asylum at Berrywood, but where the necessary accommodation can longer be spared. The committee have therefore agreed to take all the Peterborough patients, upwards of 100, at 14s. a week, and it is intended that this shall as far as possible be a permanent arrangement and will it is hoped be found mutually satisfactory for two authorities so closely adjoining each other.
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Re: Help needed with missing Humphrey ancestors

Postby bookworm » Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:20 pm

I have just logged onto the forum after a few incredibly busy days at work and I am completely overwhelmed by the generosity of members of this forum and the time and effort people have put into helping me. I have been picking away at this problem for years and I have literally lain awake at night trying to puzzle it out. I will go through each of the responses later and try to put my thoughts together but I just wanted to reply straight away to say I can't thank you all enough.

Very best wishes
Joanne


Sent from my iPad using WDYTYA Forum
Best regards
Joanne
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Re: Help needed with missing Humphrey ancestors

Postby joannelovesbooks » Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:04 pm

MayHam wrote:1. It might be worth mentioning William Humphrey with a Thos Carter, servants of Joseph Cave, in Rickmansworth, Hertfordshire, England in 1881. Don't know if Thos might be related to Margaret?
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27Z-5WP3.


This one is worth further investigation, especially since no place or year of birth is given. I think the presence of another Carter might be a coincidence as I haven't come across a Thomas in Margaret's family yet and they all seemed to live in North Yorks. What do you think the enumerator's note says? I can make out 'Did not ?? slept at Mill End' which I guess is a way of saying William wasn't there when the enumerator called and no one else was in a position to supply his birth details.

MayHam wrote:This same William Humphery (sic) appears to have recently married the widow Susan Halsey before 1881.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27Z-5HPD


This can't be my William because he appears in all the later censuses where I have my William in Lancashire.

MayHam wrote:2. Was Margaret's maiden name Carter?
Name: William Humphrey
Event Type: Marriage
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration Year: 1873
Registration District: Guisborough
County: Yorkshire
Event Place: Guisborough, Yorkshire, England
Volume: 9D
Page: 1017
Line Number: 260
William Humphrey probably married one of the following people
Name: Margaret Carter
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2DG9-848

3. Their daughters, which the 1881 census agrees with their birth counties. I can't find William, Jr.
HUMPHREY, MARGARET    
CARTER  
GRO Reference: 1874  S Quarter in GUISBROUGH  Volume 09D  Page 501

HUMPHREY, ELIZABETH    
CARTER  
GRO Reference: 1877  D Quarter in CHORLTON  Volume 08C  Page 678  Occasional Copy: A

4. The childrens' baptism courtesy of FamilySearch.org
Margaret Humphrey
christening: 16 June 1878, Peterborough, Northampton, England
residence: Peterborough, Northampton, England
father: William Humphrey
mother: Margaret

William Humphrey
christening: 16 June 1878, Peterborough, Northampton, England
residence: Peterborough, Northampton, England
father: William Humphrey
mother: Margaret

Elizabeth Humphrey
christening: 16 June 1878, Peterborough, Northampton, England
father: William Humphrey
mother: Margaret

5. The children in the 1881 census.
Margaret and William with their paternal aunt, Mary Warren, in Brandon, Thetford, Norfolk, England
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q278-F17P

Elizabeth with her Uncle John Humphreys in Santon, Thetford, Norfolk, England
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q278-FBCB

6. There was a Margaret Carter registered in Richmond in 1844.
CARTER, MARGARET    
GREIVES  
GRO Reference: 1844  S Quarter in RICHMOND UNION YORKSHIRE  Volume 24  Page 494

7. William Sr.'s baptism says his mother's last name was Reader but the GRO says Crane.
Name: William Humphreys
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 20 Sep 1846
Christening Place: Trinity, Ely, Cambridge, England
Father's Name: Thomas Humphreys
Mother's Name: Mary Reader
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JSZ5-BMZ

HUMPHREYS, WILLIAM    
CRANE  
GRO Reference: 1846  M Quarter in ELY UNION  Volume 14  Page 60

Hope this helps.


Yes, all of your references belong to my family. No, there is no reference to William junior. He was my great grandfather, who died in WW1. His service papers are missing and I don't have a single record with his date of birth on but I have been searching for his birth since 1998 and I just don't think it is anywhere.

Thank you
Joanne
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Re: Help needed with missing Humphrey ancestors

Postby joannelovesbooks » Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:08 pm

sdup26 wrote:The Humphrey children were baptised in Northampton, then Margaret 'disappears.' So in light of our previous discussion on postnatal illness (which can include psychosis in the severe form) maybe this is worth considering?
1881 census, County Asylum, Upton, Northamptonshire
MH, b 1843, inmate, married, place of birth not given


Yes, I agree, this looks very promising indeed. Upton seems to be about 50 miles from Peterborough, where the children were baptised, which seems quite a long way to go but maybe there weren't very many facilities at the time (or even now!)

Joanne
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Re: Help needed with missing Humphrey ancestors

Postby joannelovesbooks » Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:21 pm

ianbee wrote:The abode given on those baptisms in 1878 appears to be "The Union Peterborough"
Assuming that means they were in the workhouse, it might be worth seeing what records survive
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Peterborough/
Unfortunately there are no poor law records online in ancestry's Northamptonshire collections at the moment.


How sad, but how interesting. I am planning on travelling up to Northamptonshire Records Office at half-term to see what I can unearth!

Joanne
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Re: Help needed with missing Humphrey ancestors

Postby joannelovesbooks » Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:03 pm

ianbee wrote:
sdup26 wrote:maybe this is worth considering?
1881 census, County Asylum, Upton, Northamptonshire
MH, b 1843, inmate, married, place of birth not given

Thats Berrywood Asylum (later St Crispin's)
UK, Lunacy Patients Admission Registers, 1846-1912 (on ancestry)
Humphrey Margt.
female
admitted to Berrywood 19 June 1878
date of discharge or death - ??

That admission to Berrywood is three days after the baptisms.
Looks like sdup has cracked it for 1881, but the patients register doesn't seem to indicate that she died there.
Ian


This is just wonderful! Thank you so much. I have always had a feeling that Margaret lived on somewhere because I don't believe William ever married the woman he had his next few children with. It's desperately sad to know that she survived with such a dreadful illness for so many years but I feel as if, at least now, someone in the family can acknowledge what this poor woman went through.

Best wishes
Joanne
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Re: Help needed with missing Humphrey ancestors

Postby joannelovesbooks » Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:08 pm

sdup26 wrote:In 1891, William is living with Elizabeth Richardson, described as his niece, and housekeeper. Do you know if they were related, or was it just for the census, for 'respectability' purposes? Elizabeth's children, John William, Georgina, and Albert Henry, have no mother's maiden name listed on their birth registrations. Not a moral judgement - I'm just trying to work out when/where Margaret was either discharged from hospital, or died. If William had a relationship with Georgina around 1891, but couldn't marry her, it would suggest Margaret was still alive then.


Elizabeth Richardson was actually the niece of William's wife, Margaret. Although she and William never married, Elizabeth did have several more children after they were married and they do have his surname and name him as their father on their marriage certificates. I don't know whether William never married Elizabeth because he was still married to Margaret, albeit she was about 200 miles away in an asylum, or because it was illegal to marry the niece of your wife in those days, or both of the above. As you point out, Elizabeth did have several children prior to William and they were all born in the workhouse in Guisborough, North Yorks and none of their fathers is named on their registrations.

Joanne
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Re: Help needed with missing Humphrey ancestors

Postby joannelovesbooks » Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:41 pm

ianbee wrote:That date I couldn't read - I think it might say 1 Jly 07
It could relate to a transfer.
Because on 1 July 1907 a Margt Humphrey was admitted to Kesteven Asylum (which was in Quarrington in Lincolnshire)
Died 9 Nov 1921

The registration district for that asylum was Sleaford
Death
Dec 1921 Sleaford 7a 492
Humphrey, Margaret
age 78

In the 1911 census she must be M Humphrey, born Gilling
(some of the other details may not be correct)
So she should have still been in Berrywood in 1891 and 1901
Kesteven was later known as Rauceby Hospital.
Ian


That's great thank you. I have now ordered Margaret's death certificate and have found her on the 1891 and 1901 censuses. I am astounded how much progress I have made this weekend compared to how many years I have been working at this problem! Thank you so much for your help.

Joanne
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