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Terrence Kennedy - where from in Ireland?

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Terrence Kennedy - where from in Ireland?

Postby PaulH01 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:01 pm

Something more modern this time!

I have an ancestor Terrence Kennedy and have been able to track him through the 1851-1881 Censuses as being born in 1822, 1822, 1817 and 1821 respectively.
So I have lots of information about his time in Durham.

He married Elizabeth Young in Kelloe in 1841 (listed as Terence Kennaby) where his father is listed as Matthew.
I cannot find any 1841 Census entry for Terrence Kennedy or Elizabeth Young (although there are a few of her to choose from). Interestingly, there is a James Kennedy, born 1821 in Ireland, living as a lodger at her parents' home in 1841. I can find entries for James Kennedy of this age in subsequent Durham Censuses, so I don't think it's the same person, although it could be a relative.
I can find an entry for his having died in Durham 1890, having been born in 1823, which sounds plausible.

My question concerns finding out where in Ireland he was born.

A couple of family trees on Ancestry seem to focus on his birth record in 1817, Ardcath, Co. Meath, but his father there is listed as Patrick.
I can find a couple of records for Terrence Kennedy births in that timeframe in Limerick (I think one of these went to sea), and a couple in Clare. Again, none of these are father Matthew.

Has anyone any more suggestions as to how I can find out about his Irish heritage?
Thanks!
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Re: Terrence Kennedy - where from in Ireland?

Postby AdrianB38 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:59 pm

Can you answer the question - what religion was he? That would give one essential fact.
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Re: Terrence Kennedy - where from in Ireland?

Postby PaulH01 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:10 pm

Should have mentioned that - several of his children were baptised in Roman Catholic churches in various parts of Durham (he was a miner, and moved around a lot), so I've mainly been looking at records in the Republic.
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Re: Terrence Kennedy - where from in Ireland?

Postby MayHam » Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:59 am

I found Elizabeth's 14 Nov 1821 Auckland St. Andrew baptism to Robert Young & Ann Elliot.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NGHD-KRC
and, again, on 29 Apr 1823 in Pittington where her siblings, John and Barbara, were also baptised.
http://freereg2.freereg.org.uk/

Terence & Elizabeth's first four children were named Mathew, Ann Young, Robert Young, and Mary, respectively. It's not a scientific method of deduction but they do seem to follow the tradition of naming the first son after the father's father, the second son after the mother's father, the first daughter after the mother's mother, and the second daughter after the father's mother. If this is true then Matthew's wife was probably Mary.

I couldn't find a Terence, son of Matthew, but there was a James, son of Mathias (Labourer) & Mary Connel of Gurthnaskeha, baptized 20-May-1821 in Newport, Co. Tipperary.
http://ifhf.rootsireland.ie/view_detail ... rth&page=1
James may have a had a sister, Mary, baptized 09-Mar-1812 in Rathkeale, Co. Limerick.
http://ifhf.rootsireland.ie/view_detail ... ick&page=1
There were a couple of other Terence and James' of various parents but nothing really stood out.

Robert Young married Ann Elliot 25 Mar 1820 in Houghton-Le-Spring. In 1841, there were at least two Robert Youngs in Durham. Robert & Ann's family with James Kenady are found in Kelloe, Easington. http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?i ... 0013103270

There was also a Robert Young, 40, living in Houghton-Le-Spring with an Elizabeth Young, 20, John Young, 19, Thomas Young, 13, and Matthew Young, 9, all born Durham. Matthew was the son of Robert & Mary Young and was baptised 25 Dec 1831 in Houghton-Le-Spring. http://freereg2.freereg.org.uk/
I couldn't find the others. Do you know who this Elizabeth Young was?
Sorry I couldn't find much.
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Re: Terrence Kennedy - where from in Ireland?

Postby AdrianB38 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:33 am

At least you have a chance with Roman Catholic baptisms. However, there are 2 major issues with the Irish RC baptisms.

Firstly the registers are difficult to read so you are seriously dependent on the indexes. Try using wild cards just in case the Latin and microfilm have defeated the indexer.

Secondly, I think I'm right to say that the online stuff is NOT complete. Because of earlier attitudes towards the Catholic church, there was no organised control of registers so many are goodness knows where, even now. Even if you find just one combination of the right names, you should not take it as him. I was looking for my 3G GF in the Cork area, where legend says that he came from, but there appeared at first glance to be rather more people with his name who were married or buried than there were baptised.

The only safe thing is to try, try and try again to find something in the records of mainland Britain to say where he came from.

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Re: Terrence Kennedy - where from in Ireland?

Postby PaulH01 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:53 am

Thanks both for your help - the info on Elizabeth Young largely ties in with my findings too. I think she was born 1821 in Houghton-le-Spring. Hadn't thought of the possible significance of Mary as one of their children's names, sounds pretty likely.

FamilySearch has an 1841 entry for their marriage in Kelloe which names the fathers - Matthew Kennaby (the surname is misspelt, but because I know it's Terrence Kennedy and wife Elizabeth and there are no others around that time it must be them) and Robert Knox Young. From the Knox bit I can trace that line back to 1655 and a possible link to John Knox the Reformer (see previous thread).

Not seen the Irish links you have mentioned so I'll check those out, as well as look at the RC records. I know Terentii is the Latin name to look for! Which site do you recommend for the RC records? Terence was buried in an RC cemetery in Durham, too, I've noticed.

I'm a bit surprised that all documentation I've seen in England merely talks about 'Ireland' and not specify where in Ireland....

Thanks again!
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Re: Terrence Kennedy - where from in Ireland?

Postby shanew147 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:47 am

The National Library of Ireland has images of the historic Catholic records for most parishes in Ireland - over 1,000, but without having some clue as to where your Kennedy family lived, i.e. the town or parish, it would not be practical to search these.

Searchable transcripts of these records are available on both Ancestry and FindMyPast, but bear in mind that not all parishes have records back to the 1820s, and a small number are not included in the NLI films.

The surname was common throughout Ireland, but most frequent in Co. Tipperary.
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Re: Terrence Kennedy - where from in Ireland?

Postby sdup26 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:05 am

It's very frustrating that English censuses usually give an Irish person's place of birth as just 'Ireland' without even the small clue of whether it's north or south. The later censuses can be more helpful, and you may find an Irish county name added.
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Re: Terrence Kennedy - where from in Ireland?

Postby AdrianB38 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:30 am

It's not just Irish - the rules required no more than the country of birth for anyone outside England and Wales, so it tends to be just Scotland as well.

Having said that, there were lots of exceptions: the ancestor of one of my colleagues came from a small town in Saxony - that was named. One Irish guy that I've been researching recorded not just the nearby town but the exact house where he was born!

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Re: Terrence Kennedy - where from in Ireland?

Postby ksouthall » Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:13 pm

sdup26 wrote:It's very frustrating that English censuses usually give an Irish person's place of birth as just 'Ireland' without even the small clue of whether it's north or south. The later censuses can be more helpful, and you may find an Irish county name added.


The partitioning of Ireland into Northern Ireland and Eire took place in 1921 so this would not be specified in any of the censuses currently online. Whether it will be specified in censuses yet to be released will remain to be seen.
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