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Terrence Kennedy - where from in Ireland?

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Re: Terrence Kennedy - where from in Ireland?

Postby sdup26 » Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:36 pm

You're right of course - I was so busy being cross, I forgot partition!
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Re: Terrence Kennedy - where from in Ireland?

Postby PaulH01 » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:49 pm

MayHam said:

'Terence & Elizabeth's first four children were named Mathew, Ann Young, Robert Young, and Mary'

Could I ask where you got that information?
In FamilySearch I searched on Durham Kennedys with father Terrence/mother Elizabeth and got their first four children as:
Ann Young 1845, Mary 1849, Barbara J 1851, John 1855

Searching for the four names you gave on FamilySearch and FREEREG I found:
Matthew d Kelloe 1842 infant, no info on parents but abode Cassop Hill (another Kennedy, Isabella, also lived there 1782-1851 - Terrence (presumably) was fresh over from Ireland so I'm not sure about Matthew).
Ann Young - b 1845 as above. Parents Terrence/Elizabeth.
Mary Young - b 1845 Monk-Heselden, parents Charles/Elizabeth. Mary Young d 1852 Durham.
Robert Young - b 1847 Monk-Heselden, parents Charles/Elizabeth, d 1849 abode Castle Eden

I'm now very confused!!! Those four children do exist in that order, but with different father names!
Not much info for Charles Kennedy, 1823-1880 died Durham was all I could find.
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Re: Terrence Kennedy - where from in Ireland?

Postby MayHam » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:29 pm

Sorry about the confusion. The childrens' names are from the GRO.
Not sure if John and Robert are the right ones, though.

KENNEDY, MATTHEW    
YOUNG  
GRO Reference: 1842  M Quarter in EASINGTON  Volume 24  Page 106

KENNEDY, ANN  YOUNG  
YOUNG  
GRO Reference: 1845  S Quarter in EASINGTON  Volume 24  Page 131

KENNEDY, ROBERT  YOUNG  
YOUNG  
GRO Reference: 1846  D Quarter in EASINGTON  Volume 24  Page 127

KENNEDY, MARY    
YOUNG  
GRO Reference: 1849  M Quarter in EASINGTON  Volume 24  Page 149

KENNEDY, BARBARA    
YOUNG  
GRO Reference: 1851  J Quarter in DURHAM  Volume 24  Page 114

KENNEDY, MARY    
YOUNG  
GRO Reference: 1853  M Quarter in DURHAM  Volume 10A  Page 205

KENNEDY, JOHN    
YOUNG  
GRO Reference: 1855  J Quarter in STOCKTON  Volume 10A  Page 98

KENNEDY, BRIDGET    
YOUNG  
GRO Reference: 1857  J Quarter in EASINGTON  Volume 10A  Page 285

KENNEDY, JAMES    
YOUNG  
GRO Reference: 1859  J Quarter in EASINGTON  Volume 10A  Page 338

KENNEDY, TERENCE    
YOUNG  
GRO Reference: 1867  M Quarter in GATESHEAD  Volume 10A  Page 652

KENNEDY, ROBERT    
-  
GRO Reference: 1867  M Quarter in GATESHEAD  Volume 10A  Page 702

https://www.gro.gov.uk/
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Re: Terrence Kennedy - where from in Ireland?

Postby PaulH01 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:46 am

Thanks very much - I hadn't thought to use GRO, I've always used FreeBMD, but GRO has more detail on births.
With the mother's name as Young this list looks pretty conclusive. And ties in with the theory of the naming conventions for children!
Tied in with what I know, the birth locations look fairly convincing too - a lot of the early baptisms were in Kelloe, where Terrence/Elizabeth were married, and Terrence and his family did move around a lot because of the Miner's Bond.
The last on the list, Robert, is definitely the son of Terrence, too, I've got his marriage certificate. He's my great-grandfather.
However, I've still got the anomaly of Charles being named the father of a couple of these in FamilySearch to look at....

Thanks again!
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Re: Terrence Kennedy - where from in Ireland?

Postby ksouthall » Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:30 am

PaulH01 wrote:Thanks very much - I hadn't thought to use GRO, I've always used FreeBMD, but GRO has more detail on births.
With the mother's name as Young this list looks pretty conclusive. And ties in with the theory of the naming conventions for children!


Please bear in mind that Young is quite a common surname and that there could have been two Kennedy & Young marriages leading to two different families. It was not unusual for two brothers to marry two sisters. Although the birth references found may be children with the same parents, it is worth cross-referencing with censuses and parish records as well as obtaining as many birth certificates as possible.

If there is a gap between the births, it is also worth checking if Terence Kennedy's first wife died and he then married a sister or paternal cousin of his first wife, which was also not uncommon.

It is also possible that the later children could be from a second generation of the same family; e.g. the son of Mr Kennedy and Miss Young could have married one of his Young cousins and they had children.
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Re: Terrence Kennedy - where from in Ireland?

Postby PaulH01 » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:48 am

Thanks - you're right, there are quite a few Elizabeth Youngs born in Durham between 1820 and 1822! But only one Terrence Kennedy in the area born between 1817 and 1823 in Ireland, I think. And I've seen no evidence of him remarrying...

I'll check them all again, but the GRO entries tie in quite well with my findings apart from the first Matthew and the first Robert, which I hadn't picked up. The rest seem to tie in quite well with Census findings, FamilySearch, etc. The fact that families moved around due to the Miner's Bond makes it a bit harder too.
Apart from the entries where it mentions the father as Charles rather than Terrence. His dates are 1823-1880, he seems to have had married someone called Ann Maine in 1852 and had children by her in the 1850s, it's just the births of Mary Young and Robert Young in the 1840s by Elizabeth that I can't explain. I'm sure birth certificates would sort that out.
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Re: Terrence Kennedy - where from in Ireland?

Postby PaulH01 » Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:17 am

Sorry, long post. Further to my previous posts....
I've been exploring the idea above that Terrence's parents are Matthew and Mary, the only occurrence in the Irish records I can find is in Gortnaskehy, Tipperary.

I have found several children born to Matthew (Matthias) Kennedy and Mary Connell (Campbell):
John 14 Oct 1815, James 20 May 1821, Margaret 20 Dec 1823, Bartholomew 21 Jan 1827, Matthias 31 Jan 1830 (Newport), and possibly Maria 1812 and William 1832.
Matthew Kennedy was born 1795 in Cashel, Mary Campbell was also born in 1795. They married 22 Feb 1814.

Two problems: the obvious one is that I can't find a birth registered for Terrence. I've looked through what I think is a complete set of registers for the area for 1815-1825, and can't see anyother children, apart from the above. If Terrence was born there to Matthew and Mary, it would probably between May 1821 and Dec 1823 - time enough!
The other one is that I found a James Kennedy, age 20, living with Terrence's future parents in law (the Youngs) in Kelloe, Durham in the 1841 Census (see earlier post). I have seen a post on Ireland XO that suggest that James and a few of his siblings moved to the U.S. (Kansas) about 1840 - so if that is true, then it's not the Gortnaskehy James that is in Kelloe in 1841.

Given that there were gaps in registering births in Ireland about that time, I'm wondering if Gortnaskehy is still Terrence's birth, but it just wasn't registered.
As for Kelloe 1841, I'm even wondering if Terrence, for some reason, was recorded as James in the Census. It seems a big coincidence if there was another Kennedy there at the time?
One precedent for that might be the Charles Kennedy referred to earlier on the thread, who was listed as the father of two of the Kennedy/Young children. One of those, Mary, is living with Terence and Elizabeth in the 1851 Census. So he might not have been above changing his first name.

I was wondering what anyone thinks of the chances of those two 'theories' are of being true, and, again, any other suggestions welcomed! Thanks.
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Re: Terrence Kennedy - where from in Ireland?

Postby PaulH01 » Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:24 am

Kennedy 1842.png
Kennedy 1842.png (531.1 KiB) Viewed 998 times

One more question: I have found a prison record for Terrence Kennedy from 1842. It's the last entry on the attachment.

I'm struggling to read all of the information on it - can anyone please help?

It looks like he was convicted of riot, he got the option of 40 shillings or 2 months, but the remarks and result (and result code) I can't read properly.

Thanks again!
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Re: Terrence Kennedy - where from in Ireland?

Postby Sylcec » Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:27 pm

He was convicted at Durham on 8 March 1842 of ? Is it Riot or an abbreviation like Recd - but as 'do' meaning ditto follows the R word, presumably refers to "from a person".
The Sentence can't be read as your image has cut off the bottom of it - all I can see is 40 ....
Remarks: Summary R...... of Magistrate
the last column has Rem (?remitted?) 6 May 1842
Someone else may do better and be able to fill in the gaps.

By the way, in your previous post you referred several times to births being "registered"bin the 1820s etc. There was NO registration of births in Ireland until 1864. What you have been looking at and for are BAPTISM records which may or may not also include a date of birth.
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Re: Terrence Kennedy - where from in Ireland?

Postby PaulH01 » Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:04 pm

Thanks Sylvia - you're absolutely right about the baptism records, of course.

Thanks also for the interpretation of the attachment - sorry, I did cut off the sentence bit, that definitely says '40 shillings or 2 months', but the other (new) things you have come up with make sense.

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