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Edith Jones, born 1909

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Re: Edith Jones, born 1909

Postby pforkes » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:29 am

Ok, so the Chatband theorem seems to be borne out.

Today, I received the marriage certificate for Naomi Jones and John Robert Chatband. Naomi Jones’ father is listed as William Forkes (coal miner) which is correct. On 9th July 1927 (their wedding day) she is living at 21 Harcourt Street, East Kirkby. So, this would appear to be the right wedding certificate!

Yesterday, George Jones’ death certificate arrived and it was interesting by the absence of information. It would seem that he was killed by timber falling onto his skull, fracturing it and it killed him a few days later. No mention is made of ANY family member and interestingly this is the ONLY document that I have ever seen that does not have his full name (George Edward Jones). I am guessing that this was a rush, cover-up job. However, there was ONE piece of information linking him. The address given for him is 21 Harcourt Street…

I am still awaiting the arrival of the death certificates for John Robert and Naomi Chatband.

Now, let’s get to John Robert Chatband (Naomi Jones’ second husband). His age is given as being 44 on the 1927 marriage certificate which confirms his birthdate of 22nd February, 1883. It also shows that he is a widower, and a bit of digging shows that he married Florence Emma Downes in the fourth quarter of 1907 in Walsall. She appears to have been born in the second quarter of 1897 in Walsall. They also have a son - John Robert Chatband born on 23rd December 1911 in Cannock.

What I have not been able to find are:
* John Robert and Florence Emma Chatband’s 1911 census record.
* Florence Emma Chatband’s death certificate.

Can anyone help?
pforkes
 
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Re: Edith Jones, born 1909

Postby ianbee » Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:43 pm

Walsall Advertiser, Saturday 19 September 1908
Pelsall
After Nine Months. —John Robert Chatband, miner, of Princes Street, Pelsall, was summoned at the Rushall Police Court on Monday, before Messrs J. A. Lloyd (presiding) and W. Precey, for illtreating his wife, Florence Emma Chatband, who applied for a separation order. — Complainant said she married defendant nine months ago. On Sunday, the 6th inst., she had a bad headache, and she stayed in bad longer than usual. She was not up in time to take the milk, and because of that her husband punched her in the back, and when she went downstairs he kicked her and hit her on the nose, making it bleed, and also blackening her eye. He had also illtreated her about six months ago.—Defendant denied illtreating his wife, and said that his life was a perfect misery. Whenever he asked her to do anything she got the carving knife, poker, or blacking brushes to him. She was continually wanting to go to her mother's, and if she could not go she commenced a bother.— Mr Lloyd said they were not going to lend themselves to granting separation orders so easily, and the case would be adjourned for 3 months. They had only been married nine months, and had not had much experience.— Defendant: I’ve had enough.
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Re: Edith Jones, born 1909

Postby ianbee » Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:47 pm

1911
looks a bit like Chabband
Foundry View, Huntington, Staffordshire
John Robert Chatband Head 28 Married Coal Miner Hewer, born Birmingham
Florence Emma Chatband Wife 31 Married 4 years 1 child Willinghall (Staffs)
Elsie May Chatband Daughter 1
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Re: Edith Jones, born 1909

Postby ianbee » Tue Jan 31, 2017 5:10 pm

pforkes wrote: It would seem that he was killed by timber falling onto his skull, fracturing it and it killed him a few days later. No mention is made of ANY family member and interestingly this is the ONLY document that I have ever seen that does not have his full name (George Edward Jones). I am guessing that this was a rush, cover-up job.

There would have been an inquest and the coroner would have been the informant on the death certificate.
The only Nottinghamshire newspaper on British Newspaper Archive for 1922 is The Nottingham Evening Post, but currently it only has January - April. So I don't think will find a report of the inquest online at the moment (if there was a report!)

Brief info here -
http://www.healeyhero.co.uk/rescue/Fata ... ts-E1.html
Kimberley Colliery
Says George was hit by falling equipment, on the surface.
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Re: Edith Jones, born 1909

Postby pforkes » Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:17 pm

I have attached a copy of the death certificate for George Jones.
Attachments
George Jones - died 1922-2.jpg
The death certificate of George Jones - died 1922
George Jones - died 1922-2.jpg (880.13 KiB) Viewed 1358 times
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Re: Edith Jones, born 1909

Postby pforkes » Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:23 pm

Well spotted on the "spelling of Chatband as Chabband!

Elsie May Chatband appears to have been born in Q1 1910 in Walsall and died in Q1 1915. The age at death was given as 4 (which would be right if, say, she was born in March and died in February) even though she was probably closer to being 5. I have sent off for the birth and death certificates and will get back with the findings.

John Robert Chatban's marriage certificate to Naomi Jones (née Forks) shows him to be a widow, but her death is eluding me.

Thanks for all of your help.
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Re: Edith Jones, born 1909

Postby pforkes » Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:49 am

I already have the death certificate for Naomi Chatband (née Jones). It is the death of Naomi's second husband's first wife Florence Emma Downes that I am looking for.

Florence Emma Downes was born in the first quarter of 1877 in Bilston, Staffordshire.
He married John Robert Chatband in the fourth quarter of 1907 in the WALSALL district.
Their first child (Elsie May Chatband) was born in the first quart of 1910 in the Walsall district. She passed away shortly before her fifth birthday.
In the 1911 census they are mis-transcribed at "Chabband".
Their son (John Robert Chatband) was born on 23rd December 1912 in the Cannock registration district.

Florence Emma Chatband (née Downes) disappears and the next reference of (presumably) her is on the marriage certificate of her husband on 9th July 1927 where it says that he is a "widower".

I am not aware of John Robert Chatband having any wives between Florence Emma Downes and Naomi Jones (née Forks) and I am completely unaware of anything that Florence Emma Chatband after giving birth to her second child.

It is the death of Florence Emma Chatband that is eluding me.
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Re: Edith Jones, born 1909

Postby meekhcs » Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:27 pm

Bearing in mind the birth registration of their second son there is the following death registration which is worth a look:-
Emma S Chatband 1914 Q4 Cannock 6b, 536
It is easy to confuse/miss hear S and F
"Edited" at 38 she would be the correct age
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Re: Edith Jones, born 1909

Postby pforkes » Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:55 am

meekhcs wrote:Bearing in mind the birth registration of their second son there is the following death registration which is worth a look:-
Emma S Chatband 1914 Q4 Cannock 6b, 536
It is easy to confuse/miss hear S and F
"Edited" at 38 she would be the correct age


For those of you lucky enough to live in the United Kingdom, you do not have to go through the tedious extra weeks of waiting to get your ordered certificates.

FINALLY (today) the birth and death certificates for John Robert Chatband arrived and all of your assumptions were true. Also arriving today was John Robert Chatband's and his first wife's (Emma Florence Downes) marriage certificate as well as the birth and death certificate for their first child (Elsie May Chatband).

So, a BIG thank you for your help with this one. I honestly seriously doubt that I would have been able to do this without your help.

I will be ordering the death certificate for Emma 'F' Chatband in a few minutes. Hopefully, the "F" is actually an "S" and I will be one more step closer. Interestingly, the death certificate for their first daughter is dated 13th January, 1915 and the person reporting the death is "P. A. Willidig - aunt". She is John Robert Chatband's sister. It suggests that John Robert Chatband's wife (Emma Florence Chatband) is not around to report the death again prompting that she may have already died in Q4 1914.

The challenge that I am facing now is finding the birth of Emma Florence Downes. The marriage certificate for she and John Robert Chatband, dated 14th December 1907 has her age as 27, which would put her birth at around 1880. It also shows that her father was "Enoch Downes (deceased)" and that he was a collier. My initial searches for her turn up no obvious candidates.

Again, thank you for your help.

Peter
pforkes
 
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Re: Edith Jones, born 1909

Postby pforkes » Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:28 am

I was using the 'search the G.R.O. database' feature to order the Emma S Chatband death certificate and the "1914 D Quarter in CANNOCK Volume 06B Page 536" entry comes up with the name "CHATBAND, EMMA SARAH". So the "S" is for "Sarah" and not a poorly written "F".

In an earlier post, an extract from a newspaper was posted in which Florence Emma Chatband was tired of her husband and had taken him to court. The just had said that they had not been married long enough and that they should 'stick it out'.

Now, I am wondering if she got tired of him and just left? There are two possibilities:

Option #1: Did she die later?
Name: Florence E Downes
Birth Date: abt 1881
Date of Registration: Sep 1960
Age at Death: 79
Registration district: Scunthorpe
Inferred County: Lincolnshire
Volume: 3b
Page: 331

The right age and name....

Option #2: Did she get married later under her maiden name?
Name: Florence E Downes
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1935
Registration district: Wirral
Inferred County: Cheshire
Spouse: John E Edwards
Volume Number: 8a
Page Number: 756

The right name, but almost 30 years later.
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