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Brick Wall ... and Sooo recently!!

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Brick Wall ... and Sooo recently!!

Postby DesparateAnge » Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:57 am

Well, GtGrandparents anyway. Now, in the years I've been compiling my trees, there's one thing that REALLY gnaws at my nerves. My GtGrandfather Francis John Hancock b. 1865 Fen Ditton, wife Orpha (OR Helen OR Ellen - known under all 3 names) Batstone b. 1857 Chard, I've never managed to find a marriage cert OR for that matter, Francis's death entry. I've turned names around (they was fond of doing this in those days, wasn't they..) Yet, much further back, and things seem as clear as water! Think you can unravel this one? Feel free, I'll be FOREVER grateful, otherwise I've gotta go through life knowing my Grandad was a bas**** ... !!!

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Re: Brick Wall ... and Sooo recently!!

Postby lojo41 » Sat Dec 31, 2016 11:38 am

Where have you seen your Gtgrandfather living with his wife so far ?


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Re: Brick Wall ... and Sooo recently!!

Postby sdup26 » Sat Dec 31, 2016 11:45 am

There's a baptism for a Francis Hancock (no middle name given at baptism) 6th Oct 1865, Fen Ditton, Cambridgeshire, parents John (a labourer) and Sarah. If he's your Francis Hancock, perhaps he added the name John later, for his father. But it doesn't help with a marriage to a Batstone, which I can't find. Which surname was your grandfather's birth registered under?

Incidentally, there's a death for a Francis J Hancock b1867 died 1915 in Willesden, Middlesex, but his second name was Joseph, and he was born 1867 in Somerset, parents Joseph and Ruth.
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Re: Brick Wall ... and Sooo recently!!

Postby brunes08 » Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:25 pm

There is a tree on Ancestry that gives John Hancock and Sarah (Collier) as the parents of Francis. According to the information there, Sarah died in 1868. This may indicate why on the 1871 census Francis was an inmate in the Chesterton Union - father unable to take care of him and his brother Charles. Charles is further down the list of inmates. As Charles was 3 yrs old in 1871, it may be that Sarah died in or as a result of childbirth.
There is a death of a Francis Hancock aged 66 yrs (which would fit) in Bedford in 1932 - ref Bedford 3b 276.
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Brick Wall ... and Sooo recently!!

Postby brunes08 » Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:57 pm

I've had another rummage and found a few more things on Ancestry. I found Orpha E "Balstone" *on the 1881 census, aged 23yrs bn Chard as a Domestic Servant in Sussex. Couldn't find a marriage under that spelling though. Ancestry also shows that on the Electoral Registers from 1919, she swaps her name round all the time eg Orpha/Ellen etc. I also found a Baptism Register entry for William George in 1893. Parents are Francis and Orpha Helen - living in 143 Portman Buildings, Lisson Grove. They appear to be husband and wife but that is only what they tell the incumbent. What does it say on your grandfather's birth certificate? Does that give any more clues?
*The first 't' in Batstone had not been crossed on the original census entry so was transcribed as Balstone.
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Re: Brick Wall ... and Sooo recently!!

Postby ianbee » Sat Dec 31, 2016 4:16 pm

brunes08 wrote:There is a death of a Francis Hancock aged 66 yrs (which would fit) in Bedford in 1932 - ref Bedford 3b 276.

This will be the chap at 4 Cauldwell Place, Bedford, in 1911. Could be a candidate, based on his place of birth.
Frank Hancock Head 46 Married Ostler - Kings Arms Hotel - born Cambridge
Edith Hancock Wife 43 Married 7 years 1 child living Domestic Wraxall Somerset
Arthur Hancock Son 6 Son School Bedford
plus a lodger

Marriage June qtr 1904, Bedford 3b 725
Hancock, Frank
Holley, Edith

Bedfordshire Mercury, 3 June 1904
Marriages
Hancock—Holly. May 29, St. Mary’s Church, Bedford, by the Rev. G. H. Pratt, Frank Hancock, of St. Cuthbert’s, to Edith Holly, Cauldwell-place.

And in The Bedfordshire Times and Independent, same day
Hancock—Holley

Should be some info here that will help identify him! Does mention a brother called Charlie.
The Bedfordshire Times and Independent, 30 September 1932 (page 10)
Death of Mr. F. Hancock
The death took place on 22nd September of Mr. Francis Hancock, aged 66, at his home at 4 Cauldwell Place, after an illness of several months’ duration. Mr. Hancock was a well-known personality in the town, and no one welcomed him more than the villagers from the surrounding districts on their weekly calls to "put up", as for a good number of years he was ostler at the King’s Arms Hotel.
The funeral took place on Monday at the Cemetery, the first part of the service being conducted at St. Mary’s Church by the Rev. G. G. Brown. The hymns “Rock of Ages” and "Abide with me" were sung.
The floral wreaths were beautiful and numerous, and included those inscribed as follows: In loving remembrance, from his sorrowing wife, Edie, "R.I.P."; In affectionate remembrance of dad, from his son, daughter, and grandson Alfie, "Gone to rest"; In loving memory, from his brother and sister, Charlie and Pollie; From W. Lees, and Emily, Margaret, and Harold Mallion, Fen Ditton; In affectionate remembrance, from Mr. and Mrs. H. E. Goss and family, Goff Oak, Hertfordshire; In affectionate remembrance of dear Uncle Frank, from Winnie and family, Ruislip; With deepest sympathy, from Elsie Goss; With deepest sympathy, from Lill and Len, Bella and Arthur, Julia and Harold; With sincere sympathy, from Mr. and Mrs. H. Ibbott and family, "R.I.P."; In loving memory of a dear friend, Frank, from Mr. and Mrs. Setchell, also two old pals, Mr. Careless and Mr. Hilyard; With deepest sympathy, from Hilda Goss; In remembrance, from Miss Urch (Alice); With deepest sympathy, from neighbours and friends, "Peace, perfect peace"; In affectionate remembrance, from Mr. and Mrs. S. J. Askew and family, "At rest"; With deepest sympathy, from Mrs. Prior; In affectionate remembrance, from Mrs. Pedley, Haynes, "R.I.P."; From Lizzie, Waller, and Victor, "Rest in the Lord; With deepest sympathy, from Mr. and Mrs. Joy, "Olney Arms"; With deepest sympathy, from the members of Sir Wm. Harpur Lodge, R.B.B. R.A.O.B.; With deepest sympathy, from Mr. and Mrs. C. H. Goodman and family; With deepest sympathy, from Basil, Gordon, and Raymond; With deepest sympathy, from Mr. and Mrs. A. Tamkin and family, "King's Arms".
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Re: Brick Wall ... and Sooo recently!!

Postby sdup26 » Sat Dec 31, 2016 5:45 pm

Francis, Ellen (Helen/Orpha) were in Marylebone in 1891 with 3 children, and had two further children in 1893 (William) and 1894 (Emily, who died 1899). They're on the 1901 census for Fen Ditton, Cambridgeshire in 1901. Then in 1911, Orpha Helen Hancock is a 'widow' and back in Middlesex with sons Charles and William. If the deceased Frank found by ianbee is Orpha's 'husband' it seems she moved back to Mdx sometime between 1901 and 1911, and Francis (Frank) stayed put.
A possible death for Orpha? - Orpha E Hancock SQ 1939, Uxbridge 3a 141, aged 82 (b1857)
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Re: Brick Wall ... and Sooo recently!!

Postby ksouthall » Sun Jan 01, 2017 2:47 pm

I've checked Ancestry and FindMyPast Electoral Rolls and found the following addresses for :-

1913 - Ellen Orpha Hancock - 56a and 47 Regina Road, Southall-Norwood ("successive" addresses.)
1914 - Orpha Ellen Hancock - 47a and 39a Regina Road, Southall-Norwood ("successive" addresses.)
1929 - Annie Orpha Hancock - 73 Dudley Road, Norwood.
1935 & 1936 - an Ellen Orpha Hancock was living at 110A Oswald Road, Southall, Middlesex.

The later address may match with the death certificate if you are lucky and she didn't move before 1939.
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Re: Brick Wall ... and Sooo recently!!

Postby ianbee » Sun Jan 01, 2017 3:01 pm

She is on the Norwood South 1912 electoral roll as well, at 56a Regina Road - Hancock, Orphan Ellen
Dwelling house (successive) Beachcroft-avenue, and 56 Regina-road.

It's a good send off that Francis got, and a nice write up in the paper. Have to feel sorry for Orpha though.
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Re: Brick Wall ... and Sooo recently!!

Postby DesparateAnge » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:29 pm

Thanks indeed everyone,
Orpha/Ellen is certainly correct, but Frank in Bedfordshire is certainly not him. I got a tad excited with the obit write-up, but sadly not him. Frank and his little brother WAS in Chesterton workhouse, on their own as their mother had died and it seems their dad moved to Beverley to work in a Tannery. Back to Francis, he and Orpha certainly did live in Portmans Building, there is quite interesting info about the place if Googled.

In the meantime, I'm still looking.

Happy 2017 everyone, :D

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