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Ellen Davis b 1865 Welford - who is her first husband?

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Ellen Davis b 1865 Welford - who is her first husband?

Postby Rosphilda » Mon Dec 12, 2016 6:18 pm

I am looking for help on finding the first marriage of my great aunt Ellen Davis born 1865 in Welford on Avon.
In 1881 she is single, 1891 she is living in Aston with her 2 daughters, married but no husband present, 1901 there is no trace of the family & 1911 she is a widow Ellen Davis living with her married daughter Florence.
Her first daughter is Elsie Ellen born 10 Jan 1887 - 65 Regent St , Derby, but when her mother Ellen registers the birth 2 Feb 1887 she is living at the Red Lion Inn in Bromsgrove - not sure as a guest or owner.
Ellen is christened in Bromsgrove & both give her father as George Alfred Davies - a gentleman.
Her second daughter is Florence Amy born 25 July 1888 in Aston Manor her father is Alfred George Davies ( reverse christian names ) a Cattle Dealer, master.
All looks fairly easy - Ellen Davis marries a George Alfred or Alfred George Davies
Elsie Ellen sadly dies in Aston in 1893 age 6.
Moving to Florence Amy's marriage 21 June 1910 - her surname is now spelt Davis & her father is named as Alfred George Davis - deceased - butcher - Florence marries Walter Ernest Barlow a publican
To complete the records on 8 July 1915 Ellen again as Davis married Benjamin Samuel Slim ( a butcher - master but his father is a publican)
Because Alfred George / George Alfred Davies never appears on the census - don't know where or when he born or if he even existed - can find no trace of the marriage - as the christening record lists a father it would appear they thought he existed but is it coincidence that the second husband has the same occupation as the first? The marriage certificate says he was a 50 year old bachelor , if he is the first 'husband ' why couldn't they marry? Also why does Ellen go from Davies back to Davis.
Please can anyone help with my puzzles - thank you
Rosphilda
 
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Re: Ellen Davis b 1865 Welford - who is her first husband?

Postby Rosphilda » Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:43 am

Thank you for your quick reply - yes you have the right Benjamin Slim he was christened on 1 October 1865 & died in 1926. Definately says butcher - master on the marriage certificate - perhaps Ellen gave the detail & was thinking of her first husband!
How strange he too is missing in 1901 - perhaps the census missed out a huge chunk of Birmingham!
One other interesting thing on the marriage certificate to Benjamin - the witnesses were brother & sister Abraham & Frances Green & not family.
At the time of the marriage Benjamin was living at 53 Belgrave Road Edgbaston & Ellen - 1 Poplar Avenue, Runcorn Road, Balsall Heath,
Rosphilda
 
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Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:04 pm

Re: Ellen Davis b 1865 Welford - who is her first husband?

Postby Rosphilda » Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:49 pm

I think the greatest problem is that Davies is too common a name - I think I have looked at butcher Alfred & found his second initial is wrong. I looked up Millward Street there are 2 in Birmingham one in West Bromwich the other one is central Birmingham but not near Aston where Ellen & daughters were living.
You saying about Benjamin Slim never being a butcher but a publican made me have another thought. The Davis family were Methodists & my father - Ellen's nephew was teetotal all his life - so I image the fact a member of the family was marrying a publican must have been horrifying . So, did Ellen make up the fact her husband was a butcher & did the same when she married into another publican family. The fact daughter Florence married one too may indicate they moved in those circles.
Just after Elsie is born they are living in the Red Lion Inn at Bromsgrove- could it be that her husband was the publican owning it? Would be interesting to see if his christian names were Alfred George or George Alfred. It could be he had another surname & Ellen was in fact retaining her maiden name - would also be a reason they can't be found in 1901 as they are listed under his surname & also why the marriage & death can't be found as it isn't under Davies.
Does that sound far fetched?
Rosphilda
 
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Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:04 pm

Re: Ellen Davis b 1865 Welford - who is her first husband?

Postby Rosphilda » Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:49 am

My first thought that Florence was illegitimate - I couldn't find them for ages in 1891 as I was looking under Davis & the writing is hardly legible & Ellen says she is born Stratford not Welford. When I got Elsie's birth & found the link to the christening it seemed unlikely they would put a father if he didn't exist.
If her husband was a publican he might leave her ' living on her own means' the rest of the family back in Welford aren't well off - father a market gardener, her brother is the sunday school teacher & caretaker of the chapel. 2 move to Birmingham but one was a policemen.
I looked for the house they were living in in 1891 on the 1901 census & it was empty so they had moved on.
I intend to sign up for Ancestry after the Christmas rush & will look more fully at the owner of the Red Lion Inn at Bromsgrove & maybe something will come of it.
Thanks for your help - great to bounce off ideas.
Rosphilda
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:04 pm

Re: Ellen Davis b 1865 Welford - who is her first husband?

Postby Rosphilda » Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:42 pm

I have just spotted a strange thing on Elsie Ellen Davies' birth certificate.
Elsie was born 10 January 1887 - 65 Regent Street Derby under informant it says to quote fully:
" Ellen Davies, Mother, Red Lion Inn, High Street Bromsgrove Worcester- then the strange bit:
as ? ( can't read - perhaps 'per' ) declaration dated 2nd February 1887 .
The registration date was 5th February.

Can anyone give me a clue to why there should be a declaration 3 days before the registration - what it is likely to be about & where I can find it? Is it because Elsie is born in Derbyshire & the registration is in Worcestershire or something completely different?

Thanks.
Rosphilda
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:04 pm

Re: Ellen Davis b 1865 Welford - who is her first husband?

Postby ianbee » Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:29 pm

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/187 ... 088_en.pdf
Births and Deaths Registration Act 1874
Registry of birth out of the sub-district in case of removal
Any person required by this Act to give information concerning a birth, who removes before such birth is registered out of the sub-district in which such birth has taken place, may, within three months after such birth, give the information by making and signing in the presence of the registrar of the sub-district in which he resides a declaration in writing of the particulars required to be registered concerning such birth; and such registrar on payment of the appointed fee shall receive and attest the declaration and send the same to the registrar of the sub-district in which the birth took place; and the last-mentioned registrar shall, in the prescribed manner, enter the birth in the register; and the entry so made shall be deemed, for the, purposes of the Births and Deaths Registration Acts, 1836 to 1874 to have been signed by the person who signed the declaration. A person making a declaration in pursuance of this section in the case of any birth shall be deemed to have complied with the provisions of this Act as to giving information concerning that birth, and with any requisition of the registrar made under this Act within the said three months to attend and give information concerning that birth.
ianbee
 
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Re: Ellen Davis b 1865 Welford - who is her first husband?

Postby Rosphilda » Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:26 am

You have obviously come across the question before!
Thank you so much for the information - extremely helpful - my guesswork was correct & it was to do with being born in a different county. I don't think anything Ellen did was straight forward.
Thanks for your quick reply.
Rosphilda
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:04 pm


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