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French place/house names Butonsbury, Butesh Ochger

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French place/house names Butonsbury, Butesh Ochger

Postby ChristineS » Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:23 pm

During research I can come upon two French place/house names that I'm struggling to find out it they actually existed, can anyone help me?

Butonsbury and Butesh Ochger - the time frame would have been around 1820-1850's

I have my suspicion that they are transcription errors but would love to clarify it.

Thanks
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Re: French place/house names Butonsbury, Butesh Ochger

Postby junkers » Sat Dec 03, 2016 9:00 pm

I assume that this relates to Louisa Verguier, the entry for "Butonsbury" actually says on the census "France British Subject" and I would suggest that "Butesh Ochger", which I have not be able to find, is the same ("French British Subject") as early censuses would unlikely to say more than France and not specific, at least until 1911.
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Re: French place/house names Butonsbury, Butesh Ochger

Postby ChristineS » Sat Dec 03, 2016 9:10 pm

Thanks for your reply.

Yes - it is regarding Louise Verquier for Butonsbury and Isaac & Ann Woods son Isaac for Butesh Ochger.

Fellow researchers into the Marsh family are instant that these names are either town or house names :) which is why I'm trying to verify their existence or non-existence :?

I'm hoping someone will be able to settle the uncertainty (dispute :shock: ) ;)
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Re: French place/house names Butonsbury, Butesh Ochger

Postby AdrianB38 » Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:00 pm

ChristineS wrote:... I have my suspicion that they are transcription errors but would love to clarify it. ...

I'm not sure what you're asking here. In a previous thread you've identified correctly that the 1851 census for Louisa Marsh in Tutbury, Staffs, reads "France British Subject". It absolutely does read "British Subject". Ancestry's transcript reads "Butonsabury" in defiance of the written text and all sensible logic - any place-name ending in "bury" is, as I recollect, Saxon and there can't be many of those in France. So "Butonsabury" is a transcription error, no question of it. You just need to have the confidence to realise this and ignore the pleas of those who can't be bothered to look at the image of the original!

The same is true for "Butesh Ochgar" over the page - his entry reads "France British Subject". Again, no question of it. Interestingly in the 1851 England census on Ancestry, there are 6 people from "Butesh" - it appears Gibraltar has a "Butesh" ("Gibraltar, Butesh, Subyat"), Germany has one ("Germany Butesh Salpert"), etc., etc. I have some sympathy for Ancestry indexers thundering through lots of entries ("Salpert" does sound German!) but none at all for so-called genealogists who can't be bothered to look at the image and apply some common sense. Where do they think Butesh Ochgar might be? I'd guess Butesh was in India (from Bhutan) while Ochgar is definitely from the Highlands of Scotland (turn left at Balamory ?) - and they decide it's France???? Laugh or cry?

If your colleagues still insist that miraculously Ancestry knew that he was born at "Butesh Ochgar", (when it clearly reads "British Subject") so substituted that value from nowhere then I'm afraid you can't help them - they're too wrapped up in their exotic data.

To misquote the late, great Kirsty MacColl, "There's a guy works down the chip-shop swears he's Elvis - he's a liar and I'm not sure about Ancestry's indexing".
Adrian
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Re: French place/house names Butonsbury, Butesh Ochger

Postby ChristineS » Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:17 pm

:D

Had a good laugh at your reply - well said - thank you :)

Yes I had started to doubt myself. Glad to know someone else can see what I'm seeing and I'm not completely senile.

I never rely on transcripts and always like to check the original documents. However, it did take me some studying before the light bulb went off regarding the words, British Subject and transcription error.

I was hoping that someone like yourself would be able to tell me if, at all, the names were 'French', which you have. Being completely ignorant of European languages other than English I wasn't able to do it myself. I will be able to sleep tonight :) in the secure knowledge that I'm not an idiot ;)

So once again thank you for your post which made my day :)
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Re: French place/house names Butonsbury, Butesh Ochger

Postby ourkiwifamilytree » Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:58 am

Hi Christine, I had just come across the reference to Butesh Ochger too and was looking into it when I came across your query. I descend from Isaac & Ann Woods - I would love to know how you are getting on with researching the family.
Amanda
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Re: French place/house names Butonsbury, Butesh Ochger

Postby ChristineS » Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:34 am

Hello Amanda - Are you the Amanada who I have had contact with a year or so ago? and are in contact with Bruce and Deb. If you are, I think we established we were travelling on different branches and directions and Bruce and Deb would be far more help to you than I can.

C
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Re: French place/house names Butonsbury, Butesh Ochger

Postby ChristineS » Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:41 am

PS: Amanda

Please check out the 1851 Census "document" for the Marsh family as mentioned above and I think you will see that it is a transcription error. Ancestry is the only one who has it transcribed incorrectly and I have tried unsuccessfully to get them to correct it. Family Search and Find My Past have it transcribed as British subject.

I myself only use other peoples research as a suggestion/guide and always check for the facts, documents myself as there is so much incorrect information out there on the web. If I can't find proof that I am comfortable with I don't include the information in my tree. I don't believe in guess work ;) This is why I am starting to wonder if the story of Anne Wood's fall etc was a rumour that has now spread out over the net on many peoples trees. Where is the proof? I'll leave the finding of the proof as a challenge to you ;)
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Re: French place/house names Butonsbury, Butesh Ochger

Postby PaulH01 » Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:17 pm

I recently had some transcription errors in an 1851 Census entry for some of my ancestors:

Robert Robson Head M 48 Luga Stranataten
John Robson Son M 22 Hen An Fell Germany
Thomas Robson Son M 20 Gateshd, Durham

Eventually I worked out, by looking at the original, that Robert Robson was born in Stamfordham, Northumberland, and that John Robson was born in Hexham Fell, Northumberland!
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Re: French place/house names Butonsbury, Butesh Ochger

Postby ChristineS » Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:49 pm

Yes, exactly. Just because something is written down by someone doesn't mean its correct. There are several 'stories' out on the net about the death of Anne Wood and unfortunately I haven't been able to verify any of them.

OK to use other peoples information, but you do have to do your own research and common sense :)

The old story, if it doesn't sound right it probably isn't.

Well done you for working that transcription out :)
ChristineS
 
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