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No marriage?

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Re: No marriage?

Postby brunes08 » Sun Nov 27, 2016 3:32 pm

You mention that a possible marriage was in July 1850 and the birth of the first child was in August 1850. This is a possibility. I know of more than one marriage that was carried out on the day that the first child was born.
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Re: No marriage?

Postby ksouthall » Sun Nov 27, 2016 4:21 pm

It's also possible that the marriage took place after the birth of one or more of the children, especially if the bride and/or groom was already married. I'm not suggesting they were, I'm just suggesting that the marriage may not have taken place nine or more months before the birth of the first child.

Despite people's belief that the Victorians were prim and proper and that sex did not take place outside marriage, there is a lot of evidence that proves that it did in many people's family trees.
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Re: No marriage?

Postby Mick Loney » Sun Nov 27, 2016 5:04 pm

Following on from ksouthall's comments, some men wouldn't risk marrying an infertile woman, too costly to divorce later. So they tested the waters so to speak, and only married when woman proved fertile. I think you'll find lots of 'short' pregnancies for first child because of this.

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Re: No marriage?

Postby AdrianB38 » Sun Nov 27, 2016 5:32 pm

Conversely, many parishes in the Scottish churches frowned upon pre-marital fornication, as they put it, and were well able to subtract 9 months from a date - many a husband was called before the Kirk Session to explain.

Which does suggest another line of attack. The Kirk Session records of the Church of Scotland are online at the National Records of Scotland in Edinburgh and one day should be available on ScotlandsPeople. If the date given for the marriage in that registration isn't the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, then there must be a good chance that the parents were called before their Kirk Session and a record kept.

This does however, require identification of which parish, survival of the Kirk Session records and access to them. I've never seen any such records but it does offer a possible confirmation of a late or missing wedding. This would be useful in the event that the marriage records for the parish in question had been lost.

Other denominations had their own Session records but access to them may be even trickier.

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Re: No marriage?

Postby Amazinggrace » Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:48 am

Thanks everyone for your help. On the subject of the kirk,my late father said he was terrified of his grandfather who was the "Beadle" and stood at the door of the kirk as you entered (twice on a sunday),and scrutinised evryone as they went in. How times have changed.
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Re: No marriage?

Postby ianbee » Mon Nov 28, 2016 10:05 am

Had a look myself at the birth registration of Janet Girdwood
Born 27 August 1867 (gives a time!)
at Weston, parish of Dunsyre
Parents James Girdwood, Ploughman + Agnes, ms Moffat
Marriage 12th July 1850, Walston
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Re: No marriage?

Postby ianbee » Mon Nov 28, 2016 10:20 am

Seems you can search Scotlands People by parish without entering names
Looking for marriages in Walston brought up 22 pages of results, but none after 1849 (would be to 1854?)
Same on Family Search.
Anyone got any ideas?

EDIT - Walston being the birth place of Agnes (info from Grace)
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Re: No marriage?

Postby AdrianB38 » Mon Nov 28, 2016 11:07 am

Several ideas - few printable! Thanks for that Ian. ScotlandsPeople directs you to the list of parish registers on the NRS site. It confirms that the marriage register finishes in 1849.

Google directs me to the FS Wiki on,_Lanarkshire,_Scotland_Genealogy which is one of the excellent ones. That confirms the lack of a post 1849 register but also gives further details about missing years. While the words are not unambiguous, I think the ranges quoted are holes in the coverage. In the case of this parish, there are apparently massive holes in the marriage coverage, e.g. 1792-1816.

Given that the pre 1855 registers were supposed to have been submitted to the GROS from all Church of Scotland parishes, my best guess would be that the register was never made up for the 1850 marriages. An alternative explanation is that it was stuck at the back of a drawer and lost.

Another case for the TARDIS....

It might be useful to get a couple more ScotlandsPeople birth registrations - I think *from memory* that they need to be post 1860 to include the date and place of marriage but you should check this on ScotlandsPeople. If they agree on date and place, then it does tend to suggest that this is the best that you'll get.

Interesting - that FS Wiki is definitely useful, at least for this parish.

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