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WW1, grandfather in India

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Re: WW1, grandfather in India

Postby AdrianB38 » Sat Nov 19, 2016 7:53 am

Thanks Maureen - useful extra information (as always!).

The only thing that I'd add would be to say that we have seen the WW1 Medal Index Card for Edward. That tells us that he was issued with the British War Medal and the Indian General Service Medal. I have seen the actual Medal Roll for the BWM. What I haven't seen is the actual Medal Roll for the IGSM.

If I understand correctly, it should be in Ancestry's "UK, Military Campaign Medal and Award Rolls, 1793-1949". And the relevant one also seems to be a free download from the TNA Discovery site.

However I didn't see him in that collection on Ancestry, which may simply mean that he was in my results and I didn't recognise him, or my search criteria were wrong for his record.

Either way round, I feel that it would be a good idea for the original poster to look at those Rolls either via Ancestry or the TNA downloads to see if Edward can be found - and one good reason for doing that is that the IGSM Rolls that I had a quick glance at for the ASC, did seem to mention the Company in at least some cases. Logically he should be in there somewhere, under some name, in some campaign, but as I have said before, logic doesn't always work!

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Re: WW1, grandfather in India

Postby AdrianB38 » Sat Nov 19, 2016 8:08 am

I might add that I did have a very quick look at Ancestry but didn't see Edward in that collection. If he remains elusive there, then I'd definitely suggest downloading the Rolls from TNA and just reading through... Odd things happen in indexing.

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Re: WW1, grandfather in India

Postby Singleton1922 » Sat Nov 19, 2016 9:09 am

Thank you all so much for your replies. We'll try the other websites over the next few days.
Adrian, I hadn't even noticed the button but your thoughts on this are absolutely correct. I hadn't mentioned everything we knew in my original post, but his younger brother Joseph had been killed in action in May 15 at Aubers Ridge. I'm assuming mourning would be up to a year long so this helps to date his joining up.



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Re: WW1, grandfather in India

Postby Singleton1922 » Sat Nov 19, 2016 12:34 pm

midshipman wrote:Was he awarded the Military Medal?

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Many thanks for the reply. I am not aware that he was awarded the Military Medal, but am very interested in your reason for asking. Is this related to the comment about his being mentioned in "Despatches"?
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Re: WW1, grandfather in India

Postby midshipman » Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:19 pm

The reason I asked was your comment about being mentioned in dispatches plus Military Medal recipients sometimes have a separate medal card.

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Re: WW1, grandfather in India

Postby Singleton1922 » Sat Nov 19, 2016 4:27 pm

Many thanks for that; we'll look out for another medal card. We found a further medal roll today and this confirmed that he was discharged in January 1920 to the army reserve. Meanwhile we'll try to establish whether 644 is the number of the company with a view to finding a war diary.


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Re: WW1, grandfather in India

Postby Singleton1922 » Sun Nov 27, 2016 7:57 pm

I've now downloaded the WO100 medal rolls from TNA and have found an entry there. It seems he was discharged to the Army Reserve in January 1920. There is a hand-written reference. IV 802 d/ 20.11.23 A/S RASC/644. I now realise the 644 is not his company number as no one else named in WO 100/481 appears to have that reference.

Would anyone know the significance of the IV number and date in November 1923? Looking at other entries in this series this particular IV number seems to be unique to Edward.

This record was signed by an officer in the RASC record office in Woolwich dockyard on 14 August 1922 then updated in 1923 and overall all of the pages were signed in batches from early 1922 to early 1924.

Any further help would be much appreciated. Then we need to plan for a trip to Kew to look for some war diaries there.


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Re: WW1, grandfather in India

Postby AdrianB38 » Sun Nov 27, 2016 10:47 pm

This is very much a tentative theory (translation - pretty much a guess)

Your chap is on page 72 in that PDF (or at least,that's the reference I found). This is stamped "Sheet 38". Go back to p.35 in the .PDF (stamped with a "1"). This is slightly different in that the IV references - splattered all over most pages - are missing from the page. Instead, down at the bottom we see "Issue Voucher No. 1446". The next couple of pages show that "d/" in full is actually "dated".

My theory is that the IV references indicate when the medals were actually issued - the Issue Voucher refers, I reckon, to the form used to record the sending out (because there just had to be a form!) - or it might have been the action that started the sending out, such as a letter that goes to the last known address saying, "Can you confirm you still live here? Because if you do, we'll send you the medal".

In support of that I would point out that the IV references I've seen are all annotations, and they are all dated after the date that the roll was signed off (but I haven't checked a huge number). Further, one or two guys have no IV reference but a comment about "still serving" - maybe they didn't send you your medals until you'd finished serving, or maybe until you'd finished serving in that theatre. The rest of the IV annotation is therefore probably nothing more than a sequential file reference in the office.
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Re: WW1, grandfather in India

Postby Singleton1922 » Mon Nov 28, 2016 1:28 pm

Thank you very much Adrian. That all makes sense. All we need to do now is find the family member who has the medals so we can take a look.


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